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[00:50:08] <azaghal> Hrm
[00:50:17] <azaghal> I'm still trying to think of a good way for that filtering system.
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[01:18:23] <azaghal> Night
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[10:45:28] <azaghal> Yo
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[11:00:45] <azaghal> Vornne: I'm thinking if multiple property updates should be resolved in a different way. Instead of sending a single message, attach to each property update message the following additional data: transaction id, sequence number, total property update count for transaction.
[11:00:53] <azaghal> This way it could be easier to write the filtering code.
[11:01:10] <azaghal> You'd simply have one of the following (e-entity, c-component, p-property):
[11:01:24] <azaghal> (eid, cid, pid, target)
[11:02:27] <azaghal> You simply go through this iptables-like list and you don't mess with reconstructing messages.
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[12:38:35] <azaghal> sueastside: I haz a network question!
[12:38:46] <Tucos> :O
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[14:18:15] <sueastside> azaghal: 'This would have been your answer if you hadn't asked to ask.'
[14:18:31] <azaghal> sueastside: Read up a bit.
[14:18:43] <azaghal> About having transaction id for multi-property update.
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[14:25:01] <sueastside> azaghal: i'm i correct to assume you're saying a property update message would contain only _one_ property update in your proposal?
[14:25:09] <azaghal> Yes
[14:25:28] <azaghal> Plus transaction id, sequence number, and total number.
[14:25:38] <sueastside> and it would wait to apply the update untill it recieved the whole transaction?
[14:25:42] <azaghal> Yes.
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[14:26:08] <azaghal> There's maybe another way, though.
[14:26:27] <azaghal> The thing is I keep thinking on how to implement the filter for property updates efficiently.
[14:27:38] <sueastside> i wonder if that would increase latency...
[14:38:44] <azaghal> Well, who knows.
[14:38:45] <azaghal> It could
[14:39:09] <azaghal> Hm...
[14:40:22] <azaghal> Maybe it could be done in another way, hm...
[14:41:55] <azaghal> The filter receives a multi-property update which consists out of multiple propertyupdate stuff.
[14:42:27] <azaghal> It then starts to traverse the tree of filtering rules, and associates to _connection_ the message which will get sent.
[14:42:41] <azaghal> I.e. the connection is actually the main key.
[14:43:36] <azaghal> In the end it'd have a message for each connection custom-crafted and pass that on.
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[14:54:56] <sueastside> sounds good
[14:58:47] <azaghal> sueastside: I also need to figure out how to code some simple terminal interface for the network demo. Have you used ncurses before?
[15:00:57] <azaghal> lol
[15:00:59] <azaghal> From rtorrent:
[15:01:00] <azaghal> / Let us hail the creators of curses for being idiots. The only
[15:01:00] <azaghal> / clever move they made was in the naming.
[15:01:00] <azaghal> #undef timeout
[15:01:00] <azaghal> #undef move
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[15:23:20] <Deepa|AFK> I must spread the joy!
[15:23:20] <Deepa|AFK> http://lolpics.se/pics/3984.png
[15:26:33] <Tacos> xD
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[15:43:02] <azaghal> rofl
[15:47:58] <azaghal> sueastside: Need to learn ncurses...
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[18:32:05] <azaghal> Off for some running
[18:45:24] <sueastside> azaghal: ncurses isnt really portable
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[19:12:57] <azaghal> Phew
[19:13:09] <azaghal> sueastside: And what is?
[19:13:34] <azaghal> http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/ncurses.htm
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[19:18:07] <sueastside> azaghal: zombie page, it not in the actual package list
[19:21:46] <sueastside> http://pdcurses.sourceforge.net/ perhaps?
[19:23:15] <azaghal> 2008
[19:23:33] <sueastside> same as ncurses :/
[19:24:23] <azaghal> I still trust ncurses more, sorry.
[19:24:46] <sueastside> http://sourceforge.net/projects/tvision/ seems more alive with development in 2010
[19:25:49] <sueastside> pff screw all of this, write a web interface :P
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[19:31:02] <azaghal> There's slang too
[19:31:15] <azaghal> I don't care about web interface, to be honest.
[19:31:18] <azaghal> Not at this time.
[19:32:05] <Deepa> What's wrong with ncurses?
[19:33:17] <azaghal> Deepa: Our winblow$ guys complain it's not portable.
[19:39:11] <Deepa> ncurses.dll says it's portable
[19:39:40] <azaghal> Deepa: Any linky?
[19:41:09] <Deepa> Nope, but I've had it on my PC for like 3 years
[19:42:35] <Deepa> and it's not the cygwin one either!
[19:43:17] <azaghal> sueastside: If you want, I could use gtkmm :)
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[19:46:42] <azaghal> https://fedorahosted.org/newt/
[19:46:44] <azaghal> There's that too
[19:47:19] <azaghal> Quite old as well
[19:50:53] <azaghal> sueastside: Take a pick - ncurses or gtkmm?
[19:53:03] <Deepa> What's wrong with curses?
[19:53:28] <Deepa> There's always pdcurses
[19:54:04] <azaghal> Does pdcurses have less features?
[19:54:15] <Deepa> It's an alternative to ncurses
[19:54:17] <azaghal> Sorry, pdcurses is not in Gentoo :)
[19:54:19] <Deepa> Of course it's public domain
[19:54:45] <azaghal> I could also take a look at CEGUI.
[19:55:00] * azaghal pokes sueastside - a _LOT_
[19:58:31] <sueastside> azaghal: cegui
[19:58:38] <azaghal> Bitch...
[19:59:42] <sueastside> gtkmm is just nasty nasty code
[19:59:56] <azaghal> What version of CEGUI do we use?
[20:00:05] <sueastside> 0.7.2
[20:00:15] <azaghal> There is no 0.7.2.
[20:00:22] <sueastside> .1 then
[20:00:43] <sueastside> azaghal: it needs a rendering engine, its not stand alone...
[20:00:52] <azaghal> So?
[20:01:05] <azaghal> It's modular :)
[20:01:44] <sueastside> well not sure what exactly you plan to do with it
[20:02:36] <azaghal> I want to add some stuff to the server/client test apps.
[20:02:56] <azaghal> So that you can see current messages being received and type in some commands for sending messages yourself.
[20:03:03] <sueastside> 'some stuff'? like chat?
[20:03:38] <azaghal> Not chat as such.
[20:03:46] <azaghal> That's something for the component system.
[20:04:53] <sueastside> sure that works, there is a CS CMake script in my assetclient branch if you need it
[20:05:31] <azaghal> No thanks, I don't want to get into Vornne's code until he documents it.
[20:06:51] <azaghal> Is CEGUI easy to learn?
[20:08:56] * azaghal pokes sueastside
[20:09:29] <Tucos> azaghal: afaik it's not too difficult, lots of examples come with it and TR used it too
[20:11:52] <Deepa> azaghal, x11-libs/pdcurses
[20:11:54] <Deepa> You sure it's not there?
[20:23:45] <azaghal> Deepa: Nope
[20:23:50] <azaghal> And I just synced today.
[20:23:52] <azaghal> Anyway...
[20:24:21] <azaghal> sueastside: I'll probably go for non-interactive thing (can't send stuff and see traffic at the same time)
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[20:40:47] <azaghal> Hm...
[20:46:00] <azaghal> Tucos: Do you want a non-coding task?
[20:46:09] <Tucos> depends on the task :)
[20:47:04] <azaghal> To check what happens if we try to have CC-BY-SA meshes with CC-BY textures applied.
[20:47:15] <azaghal> I.e. if it's possible to keep them separate etc.
[20:47:19] <azaghal> (license-wise)
[20:47:53] <Tucos> how detailed should the report be? :p
[20:48:00] <Tucos> and, IANAL ;)
[20:48:04] <azaghal> IANAL?
[20:48:10] <azaghal> iAnal
[20:48:14] <azaghal> The new product from Apple.
[20:48:35] <azaghal> You can stick it in your ass for 100% realistic simulation of Steve Jobs' cock.
[20:48:55] <Tucos> :D
[20:49:01] <Tucos> i am not a lawyer
[20:49:14] <Tucos> but i am lagged like hell :O
[20:49:50] <Tucos> bbiab
[20:49:55] <Tucos> oh, now it works again xD
[20:50:20] <azaghal> Erm
[20:50:23] <azaghal> Well, for example.
[20:50:29] <azaghal> You have this blend mesh.
[20:50:40] <azaghal> You do that UV thingy for a texture.
[20:50:57] <azaghal> sueastside: What format CS uses for mesh + texturing stuff? Two files? Single file?
[20:52:24] <Tucos> hm, not sure how much sense that makes, btw, cc-by means one can make derivatives and just has to give you credit, cc-by-sa means they can make derivatives but have to use a similar license
[20:53:04] <Tucos> so if someone else uses the meshes, they'd be released in an open manner ; if someone uses the textures, they might be used for PS :p
[20:53:46] <azaghal> Tucos: The issue might be if the object in-game or something is a derivative work of both.
[20:54:37] <Tucos> "Adaptation" means a work based upon the Work, or upon the Work and other pre-existing works, such as a translation, adaptation, derivative work, arrangement of music or other alterations of a literary or artistic work, or phonogram or performance and includes cinematographic adaptations or any other form in which the Work may be recast, transformed, or adapted including in any form recognizably derived from the original, except that a work that
[20:54:37] <Tucos> constitutes a Collection will not be considered an Adaptation for the purpose of this License.
[20:55:00] <Tucos> "Collection" means a collection of literary or artistic works, such as encyclopedias and anthologies, or performances, phonograms or broadcasts,
[20:55:26] <Tucos> i'd say, yes, the mesh combined with its texture is an adaptation
[20:56:11] <azaghal> Damn
[20:56:17] <azaghal> All those good textures can't be used :/
[20:56:37] <Tucos> ask the owner
[20:56:45] <Tucos> they can give you permission to do so
[20:58:35] <Tucos> err, btw, azaghal, if the textures are CC-BY you _may_ make derivatives ; the BY is the least restricting license of them all
[20:59:20] <Tucos> only the ND licenses may not be used for derivatives
[20:59:27] <azaghal> Tucos: The issue here is using CC-BY textures with CC-BY-SA meshes.
[20:59:29] <azaghal> Hm...
[20:59:45] <azaghal> Does CC-BY allow to change the license of derivative work?
[20:59:50] <azaghal> As in make it CC-BY-SA?
[21:00:04] <Tucos> yes, both may be used for derivatives, only the -SA means you must share the derivative under a similar license, which is no issue for the -BY
[21:00:10] <azaghal> Tucos: Can you check on all those things and make some kind of report. Contact maybe someone from CC and stuff?
[21:01:07] <Tucos> sure, so textures are CC-BY and meshes CC-BY-SA and the result would be CC-BY-SA also?
[21:01:14] <azaghal> sueastside: And, btw, since I have a good camera now, I could also help collecting sources for textures. Just need instructions on what's needed.
[21:01:30] <azaghal> Tucos: No idea, that's for you to find out if you really want to help :)
[21:01:49] <Tucos> well, you gotta give me some point to start xD
[21:02:00] <azaghal> ...
[21:02:06] <Tucos> you got textures?
[21:02:10] <Tucos> and you got models?
[21:02:21] <azaghal> What more input do you need, seriously?
[21:02:58] <Tucos> -.-
[21:03:03] <Tucos> nvm, have fun figuring it out
[21:05:14] <sueastside> azaghal: assetclient is my branch
[21:06:31] <sueastside> azaghal: seperate texture files
[21:06:42] <azaghal> sueastside: And those UV maps things?
[21:07:21] <azaghal> sueastside: I think someone should explore the licensing stuff in light of textures available from http://www.flickr.com/photos/bittbox
[21:07:46] <azaghal> I also contacted Jekkar regarding the photo camera stuff :)
[21:07:49] <sueastside> azaghal: thats part of the mesh
[21:08:03] <azaghal> But UV map is made based on both mesh and texture?
[21:08:42] <sueastside> ussually yes, or both are made to some generic template
[21:08:45] <azaghal> What I'm unsure about CC-BY is whether you can further restrict it or not.
[21:09:24] <azaghal> I.e. it doesn't request from you to distribute it with same terms to someone else, unlike -SA.
[21:10:47] <azaghal> In case of such external sources we also might want to check how the author would like to be contributed.
[21:10:51] <sueastside> azaghal: and i didnt tell you to look at the code, just copy https://cyanox.nl/peragro/branches/assetclient/cmake/modules/FindCS.cmake
[21:11:00] <azaghal> (I don't want to end-up tattooing bittbox on my butt)
[21:11:13] <azaghal> sueastside: I'm not using CS at this time.
[21:11:28] <azaghal> And I'm not even implementing the real chat.
[21:11:34] <sueastside> azaghal: well if you were going for CEGUI...
[21:11:39] <azaghal> I won't.
[21:11:42] <azaghal> I gave up on that.
[21:11:42] <sueastside> ok
[21:11:59] <azaghal> I'll make it a bit dumber, but it will allow me to work with it right away.
[21:12:28] <azaghal> I actually wanted to avoid any GUI with network branch as long as possible (in order to iron it out a bit)
[21:13:05] <azaghal> That's why I wanted ncurses at first - nice, slim, make maybe a widget-two and be done with it.
[21:13:58] <sueastside> isnt it a bit overkill for just two widgets?
[21:15:09] <sueastside> well if its for your own testing, there isnt really anything stopping you
[21:16:52] <azaghal> It should be also kind of an example application too.
[21:22:39] <sueastside> thats why you'll commit the code, for others to study and write a CEGUI version.
[21:23:25] <azaghal> Not necessarily, I might start with CEGUI as well, just not right now :)
[21:35:05] <azaghal> Hm...
[21:35:13] <azaghal> Do you know what has _always_ been a mystery to me?
[21:35:24] <azaghal> Reading a line of text from standard input in C++ :)
[21:52:39] <Deepa> gets()?
[21:52:41] <Deepa> oh
[21:52:42] <Deepa> cin?
[21:56:53] <azaghal> Nah
[21:56:58] <azaghal> There's std::readline
[22:04:03] <Deepa> What's wrong with cin?
[22:04:43] <azaghal> Deepa: std::string str; std::readline(std::cin, str);
[22:04:46] <azaghal> That's the way you have to do it.
[22:05:16] <Deepa> You can't just string; cin >> var?
[22:06:00] <azaghal> That reads until first tab/space/newline :)
[22:10:36] <Deepa> You can tell it to choke on newline only
[22:15:01] <azaghal> std::readline() does it.
[22:15:16] <azaghal> sueastside: Do you know of any standard stuff for int/char/whatever conversion in C++?
[22:15:20] <azaghal> (to string)
[22:15:31] <azaghal> Or should I use string streams for such things?
[22:20:01] <azaghal> sueastside: What convenience stuff you think I should add now to networking code?
[22:20:16] <azaghal> For example, I'll add GetUri() to server/connection implementations.
[22:20:36] <azaghal> Should servers be registered centrally or not?
[22:20:55] <azaghal> (allowing you to do stuff like query for a list of servers etc
[22:20:55] <azaghal> )
[22:27:06] <sueastside> azaghal: stringstream works
[22:27:15] <azaghal> Is that normal usage of it?
[22:27:20] <azaghal> I never thought about it before, to be honest :)
[22:27:43] <sueastside> azaghal: master server could be interesting, but static ip list would work for now
[22:27:58] <azaghal> Master server?
[22:28:28] <azaghal> This is more of a keeping a list of servers at dispatcher.
[22:28:37] <azaghal> I'm not sure how I should deal with it, to be honest.
[22:28:38] <sueastside> master server= register place for other servers, which the client would query for a list of servers
[22:28:51] <azaghal> No, no, we're not talking about same thing here :)
[22:28:59] <azaghal> I'm talking network-code wise.
[22:28:59] <Tucos> just like all the cool games do for their host lists :D
[22:29:36] <azaghal> That'd probably be implemented as a new message type or something.
[22:29:53] <sueastside> azaghal: well there are things like itoa as well for conversion, but that requires delete etc, so stringstream is nicer imho
[22:31:58] <azaghal> I'm more thinking what to offer in the base classes etc. atm.
[22:32:06] <azaghal> Trying to tidy up the code and add more functionality as I go along.
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[22:45:54] <azaghal> sueastside: Busy with something?
[22:46:29] <sueastside> watching porn, i'm feeling lonely...
[22:47:37] <azaghal> I'd shake my ass in front of your face, but since you're Belgian, I'm afraid I could get screwed...
[22:47:59] <Tucos> isn't that the whole point?
[22:48:04] <azaghal> Well, thoughts on what I said? I think I pretty much have most of the system solved, except for the PropertyUpdate implementation.
[22:48:15] <azaghal> Tucos: Nah, not really.
[22:50:23] <sueastside> azaghal: hmm? i thought you were doing that connection is main key, compile updates into a message for each connection...
[22:50:43] <azaghal> sueastside: I need to implement that, but that's what I was thinking about.
[22:50:54] <azaghal> But I'm trying to polish some things out as well.
[22:56:42] <sueastside> azaghal: well what you said earlier sounded sound, so i'm not sure how to give feedback here without some actual code or a more detailed description (well with your single property message i commented that that would induce more latency, better to sacrifice a bit more cpu cycles on recompilation of messages as in the current idea)
[22:57:21] <azaghal> Actually, I'm not as worried on CPU cycles as on _how_ to implement it in some sane way.
[22:57:25] <azaghal> But that last thing should work.
[22:57:38] <azaghal> Now I'm asking more of how to register stuff and if to register them.
[22:57:53] <azaghal> I actually started by thinking about that server "command line" thing.
[22:57:58] <sueastside> azaghal: as for the geturi() i'm not entirely sure where that would fit, and would it be unique even for servers behind nat?
[22:58:05] <azaghal> I wanted to have a "show server" etc.
[22:58:11] <azaghal> Hm...
[22:58:20] <azaghal> Servers behind NAT could have trouble maybe.
[22:58:33] <azaghal> But you could use it to list currently running servers.
[22:58:39] <azaghal> I.e. to have some kind of unique identifier.
[22:59:14] <azaghal> In case of connections you could list individual connections and distinguish between them.
[22:59:17] <sueastside> so its kind of a way to distinguish server connections from client ones?
[22:59:35] <azaghal> Well, in case of connection uris, probably.
[22:59:51] <azaghal> But to the server all should be transparent, actually.
[23:00:07] <azaghal> This is more of a way to list _local_ listening servers and their URI's.
[23:00:28] <azaghal> For example, the moderator wants to check if someone might be cheating.
[23:00:51] <azaghal> It's very little code that gets added, and it's actually more for user-side readability stuff.
[23:01:11] <azaghal> (instead of telling the user "Oh, yeah, you got a server at 0xAF00232 alright)
[23:03:49] <sueastside> ok
[23:04:53] <azaghal> I also don't know where to have the servers etc registered.
[23:05:01] <azaghal> Currently message types are registered in Dispatcher.
[23:05:12] <azaghal> But it could feel like putting too much stuff into it.
[23:07:33] <sueastside> hmm
[23:07:59] <azaghal> I could place it in some static thing, of course.
[23:09:45] <azaghal> Something like create server (dynamically, shared pointer), then PT::Network::RegisterServer(server) - this takes care of attaching the thing to dispatcher as well - then add stuff like iterate over etc.
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