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[05:58:19] <sueastside> jennymccrackens: !
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[07:16:59] <jennymccrackens> Hey sueastside!!
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[09:58:19] <brankom> Yo
[10:13:34] <PK> Yo
[10:13:45] <sueastside> yo brankom PK
[10:14:17] <brankom> sueastside: Yo
[10:14:19] <brankom> PK: Yo
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[12:23:30] <amogorkon> hi
[12:23:43] <sueastside> hey amogorkon
[12:24:21] <amogorkon> hey sueastside, how are you doing?
[12:25:00] <sueastside> boiling in my own sweat, you?
[12:25:18] <amogorkon> getting there :)
[12:27:15] <amogorkon> i woke up today with an idea in my mind
[12:27:21] <sueastside> oh no!
[12:27:34] <amogorkon> yeah, shit happens, i know :)
[12:28:27] <sueastside> amogorkon: ...
[12:29:04] <amogorkon> anyhow, i was wondering whether it would be possible that all three projects, peragro, trinity reign and pilife, would use the same event/quest scripting protocol
[12:30:20] <amogorkon> i say protocol instead of language because it would only concern the transmission of such scripts, not the implementations on server or client-side
[12:32:31] <amogorkon> as i don't think scripts for events/quests won't differ in content greatly, we could use an xml-based protocol for storage and transmission of such scripts
[12:33:00] <amogorkon> while the backends could and should differ
[12:33:36] <amogorkon> that way we can compare security and performance of the respective implementations
[12:34:18] <amogorkon> also, in case one project builds a sophisticated editor and other tools around scripts, the other projects easily could integrate
[12:35:46] <amogorkon> and thirdly, if users are granted to enter scripts, they need to be parsed for errors before they are issued as code
[12:36:38] <amogorkon> so it would be required of each project to build their own transmission and storage protocol to seperate user- from serverside
[12:36:50] <amogorkon> which is a redundant effort, imo
[12:37:25] <amogorkon> .
[12:38:56] <sueastside> amogorkon: well i'm working on a content system, its currently just the world, but i guess quests could fit in there somehow
[12:39:15] <sueastside> bbl
[12:39:18] <amogorkon> o/
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[13:33:52] <sueastside> amogorkon: thinking about it, data, like dialogue and such, might be interesting, but if our engines are different, its seems unlikely scripts could be reused, even if the script language is the same, the context that will be exposed will certainly be different
[13:41:23] <amogorkon> not sure about that. i think all quests and events need to describe the same concepts - act and react under certain conditions
[13:42:13] <amogorkon> it probably requires some extensive discussion on limitations of engines and optional features
[13:42:18] <sueastside> amogorkon: if it just the transmission, its basicly just a lib that can send and recieve text, i dont see the added benefit there if the project already has network support
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[13:43:09] <amogorkon> no, i'm talking of describing actions of NPCs, system etc under specific conditions
[13:43:58] <amogorkon> like "if player P approaches location L, trigger action A"
[13:45:18] <sueastside> amogorkon: just that data or would it implement atleast a FSM, some basic triggers and what not?
[13:45:44] <amogorkon> it would just describe this data as xml
[13:46:30] <amogorkon> that would leave open implementation-details like programming langauge to use
[13:46:55] <amogorkon> the whole python vs. lua discussion would be left to the individual project
[13:47:21] <amogorkon> but the scripts could be shared and performance could be compared
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[13:49:36] <amogorkon> etc
[13:54:50] <sueastside> amogorkon: hmm do you have like an actual example? its not that its a script language on itself, it embeds the scripting language? or is compile to it?
[13:57:18] <amogorkon> actually i have an example. incidentally i worked on an xml-based event-description language few months ago
[13:57:37] <amogorkon> i made it for PL
[13:57:53] <amogorkon> but it was based on requirements underthemoon specified for TR
[13:58:06] <sueastside> yeah yeah more pasting, less talking :)
[13:58:09] <amogorkon> i thought you already had something similar here
[13:58:16] <amogorkon> lol
[13:58:27] <amogorkon> http://www.azarentia.de/mediawiki-1.15.1/index.php?title=Scripting
[13:58:32] <amogorkon> there you are
[13:58:52] <amogorkon> the implementation idea on top is irrelevant in this discussion
[13:59:03] <amogorkon> check the "xml schema for triggers"
[13:59:35] <amogorkon> it's basically independant of the implementation
[14:00:38] <amogorkon> although there are some specifics for PL, which probably would need to be either generalized or made optional
[14:02:01] <brankom> Hm...
[14:02:16] <brankom> How about defining a kind of schema or something that would be used for quest by TR/PT/PL?
[14:02:23] <brankom> Kind of a standard? :)
[14:02:35] <amogorkon> yes, that's exactly what i'm talking about :)
[14:03:37] <brankom> Maybe some stuff should be made modifiable.
[14:03:47] <brankom> I.e. you might want to change name of a city/NPC etc.
[14:05:59] * amogorkon nods
[14:07:57] <brankom> You could maybe even add some kind of hints.
[14:07:58] <brankom> For example:
[14:08:14] <brankom> "This journey in a quest should last about 10 minutes"
[14:08:22] <brankom> Or "distance between cities should be 10km"
[14:08:25] <brankom> Stuff like that.
[14:08:33] <brankom> You could then use that as a filter.
[14:09:10] <amogorkon> hm.. not sure what you mean by filter?
[14:09:30] <amogorkon> you mean when searching for a quest-script?
[14:13:16] <brankom> Nah
[14:13:27] <brankom> Let's say you want to import a quest into your world.
[14:13:39] <brankom> And you are allowed to change cities which it refers to or NPCs.
[14:13:48] <brankom> But you're not sure what the best choice would be.
[14:13:57] <brankom> So, the quest definition would add some more hints on it :)
[14:14:10] <sueastside> amogorkon: can you or/and subscriptions? could you also give an example of dialog flow control (say a friendly hello when someones faction is the same as the npc, change dialog whether or not the player has a certain item...)?
[14:14:36] <amogorkon> brankom, i see :)
[14:15:10] <amogorkon> sueastside, the first question is incomplete - do you want me to explain subscriptions?
[14:15:31] <sueastside> right, and now brankom made me also think about 'trigger factories' ...
[14:16:18] <sueastside> amogorkon: no, your text says "subscriptions is a list of conditions in subsystems that need to be true in order to activate the trigger " but say i wanted to do <subscription type="time"><after>1258262101.0</after></subscription>
[14:16:31] <sueastside> OR <subscription type="location"><where>castle</where><who>king_arthur@pilife</who></subscription>
[14:16:57] <amogorkon> ah
[14:17:24] <sueastside> as in: fire when time or arthur is in his castle
[14:18:59] <amogorkon> iirc, the idea was that you can combine different <subscriptions>..</subscriptions> triggering the same action
[14:19:37] <amogorkon> within a <subscriptions> branch conditions are combined with AND
[14:19:49] <amogorkon> amongst different branches, they are combined with OR
[14:20:28] <sueastside> another use case: a trigger that checks if a merchant npc has less than 10 apples, if so it creates a new quest trigger or a trigger that shouts apples wanted when entities go near
[14:21:30] <amogorkon> that is simple
[14:22:38] <amogorkon> look at the "switch" thing, second from top
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[14:23:21] <amogorkon> switch="every time" resets a trigger and fires every time when a condition becomes true
[14:25:15] <amogorkon> then you set a subscription to database to set up an update-trigger, which checks when a condition in a table becomes true
[14:25:57] <amogorkon> maybe that needs some more thought, but i thought that simple enough
[14:27:02] <amogorkon> might need some more abstraction for database-schemas
[14:27:13] <sueastside> amogorkon: well if you could write it out, especially a dialog flow example, it seems it can do the same thing as PT's NPC XML and you can count me in on this idea :)
[14:28:30] <amogorkon> dialogs..
[14:29:46] <amogorkon> those are not trivial, especially with different ideas in mind on how they should work
[14:29:54] <sueastside> in our component-property engine, it would be neater to have the update-trigger on a property callback, rather then the DB
[14:30:10] <amogorkon> for instance the PS approach was text-based
[14:30:44] <amogorkon> and the message-subscription would integrate *that* approach fine
[14:31:17] <amogorkon> but with a multi-choice dialog-system that needs more thought
[14:31:59] <amogorkon> i'll take a closer look at the PT NPC XML and see how that can be combined well
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[14:35:28] <sueastside> amogorkon: guess the trigger could be on the answer, it can perform some actions, including showing the next dialog
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[14:36:12] <brankom> sueastside: In our case, an entity for shouting would be created or something :)
[14:36:24] <brankom> Or maybe a component would get added to trader with no apples for that.
[14:36:49] <amogorkon> do you use a multi-choice approach?
[14:36:58] <sueastside> amogorkon: yes
[14:37:27] <amogorkon> hm
[14:38:57] <amogorkon> i might have an idea for dialogues, but it needs some more time before it hatches in my brain
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[14:41:48] <sueastside> amogorkon: when you start a conversation with an entity, it sends a dialog and the possible answers, answers link to other dialogs, a dialog can be of type text/teleport/script, so you could have "can i help you traveler" yes/no, click yes -> "if level > 15 dialog a else dialog b" -> > 15 == True -> "You're level 15 or higher shall i teleport you to the badlands?" yes/no -> click yes -> teleport
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[15:15:11] * brankom stars pouring fertilizer over amogorkon's head
[15:15:54] * amogorkon gets very fertile
[15:16:26] <amogorkon> ah
[15:16:31] <amogorkon> idea :]
[15:17:06] <amogorkon> the XMl schema outlined for PL was supposed to be "atomic", which means one trigger per condition, more or less
[15:17:22] <amogorkon> dialogues would require a compound construct
[15:19:59] <amogorkon> possibly could use the IDs of each trigger to combine them in a structured way
[15:20:53] <amogorkon> then you could combine replies with conditions
[15:21:08] <amogorkon> and have the whole dialogue in one blob
[15:21:36] <amogorkon> but still could refer to each part by ID
[15:21:43] <amogorkon> from outside, even
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[16:31:56] <brankom> amogorkon: Keep your fertileness to yourself... _Or_ your g/f...
[16:36:32] * Moon gets the feeling that brankom has been probed by aliens in a past life.
[16:39:55] <brankom> rofl
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[17:13:56] * amogorkon has a large joystick in front of him
[17:14:33] <amogorkon> i like playing games with joystick!
[17:15:07] <amogorkon> i think you should be able to play PT with it
[17:17:16] <Moon> Yay
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[17:46:33] <brankom> amogorkon: ...
[17:48:42] * amogorkon gets some more fish-sticks
[17:50:00] <amogorkon> they are really hot and tasty
[17:51:14] * amogorkon offers one to brankom
[17:51:17] <amogorkon> ;)
[17:51:33] <brankom> Eh?
[17:52:16] * amogorkon offers a fishy stick to brankom
[17:54:28] <brankom> Pfft
[17:55:02] <Moon> I can haz Subway?
[17:55:37] <amogorkon> would need to go to town for that
[17:58:47] <Moon> I think I will
[18:00:19] <brankom> Heading off home ;)
[18:00:28] <brankom> sueastside: Got some new code, I hope I commit it today :)
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[23:09:53] <azaghal> sueastside: Gotta hate it when you spend too much time at work, and get home late -.-
[23:49:22] <azaghal> Night all :)