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[00:48:01] <azaghal> Good night all ;)
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[18:36:08] <azaghal> Yo
[18:43:28] <sueastside> yo azaghal
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[18:58:57] * azaghal pokes sueastside
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[19:08:07] <V3RR3Z> anyone on?
[19:09:40] <azaghal> Nope
[19:09:40] <azaghal> -.-
[19:09:41] <azaghal> Damn...
[19:09:43] <azaghal> Not again...
[19:11:10] <V3RR3Z> xD
[19:11:34] <V3RR3Z> Does Peragro use a bot to keep it open or just people?
[19:12:43] <azaghal> Eh?
[19:14:08] <sueastside> If we were a bot, we wouldnt answer that question truthfully, now would we?
[19:14:26] <thebolt> sueastside: or maybe you would to confuse :P
[19:15:17] <V3RR3Z> I didnt know if you used a bot to help keep the room open..
[19:15:57] <thebolt> V3RR3Z: its not needed on freenode.. freenode use chanserv & nickserv
[19:16:17] <V3RR3Z> ahh kool
[19:16:44] <sueastside> thebolt: ultimate deception is convincing them that they are bots
[19:17:26] <sueastside> V3RR3Z: You're not real, you're an advanced AI created to study social interaction on the internet.
[19:18:15] <thebolt> sueastside: i think there is an xkcd where that happens.. ;)
[19:18:15] <V3RR3Z> You forgot about my built in GPS.
[19:18:28] <thebolt> (someone doing the turing-test and failing it or so :P)
[19:19:18] <sueastside> thebolt: xkcd has everything, if the phrase "Simpsons did it" doesnt cover it, "xkcd did it" will.
[19:19:38] <thebolt> http://xkcd.com/329/
[19:20:57] <sueastside> :)
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[19:23:30] <azaghal> V3RR3Z: So _that's_ why you have an antenna sticking out of your arse...
[19:23:34] <azaghal> Ahem :)
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[19:31:41] <needle> Lanii: hey
[19:31:58] <needle> good evening #peragro
[19:32:56] <needle> azaghal: any news when peragro client will be ready ?
[19:33:17] <needle> did not hear anything lately, only that you are lazy and unmotivated
[19:34:15] <needle> since i don't want to use my energy for the unspoken game to compile.. i bought gothic3 lately
[19:34:15] <azaghal> needle: I decided to code part of message serialization today.
[19:34:21] <azaghal> Ah
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[19:34:32] <azaghal> needle: Want to learn how to work with cmake?
[19:34:49] <needle> azaghal: that's great news...
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[19:34:57] <Induane> great news?!
[19:34:58] <needle> cmake you say i want to learn
[19:35:01] <azaghal> Lanii and Induane two little hearts... Went... Erm... Whatever way that pick-on-song works.
[19:35:16] * Induane repeatedly pokes azaghal
[19:35:21] <needle> ok, well i could but there is much to do i just know cmake looks good while building
[19:35:25] <needle> many colors
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[19:35:34] <Induane> V3RR3Z: !!!
[19:35:38] * azaghal lets out annoying terminal bell sounds *beep* *beep* *beep*
[19:35:40] <needle> Induane: !!!
[19:35:44] <Induane> needle: !!!
[19:35:46] <Induane> azaghal: !!!!
[19:35:46] <azaghal> azaghal !!
[19:35:49] <azaghal> Yay
[19:35:54] <Induane> FLUFFY PUFF MARSHMELLOW MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[19:36:01] <azaghal> Fluffy puff?
[19:36:08] <Induane> <3 <3 I HEART YOU FLUFFYPUFF!
[19:36:27] <needle> azaghal: return to serialization
[19:36:35] <needle> please
[19:36:50] <needle> coding serialization, erm.
[19:37:01] <azaghal> needle: Well, I'd like to use cmake for new PT code base
[19:37:10] <sueastside> Induane: got my email?
[19:37:11] <azaghal> And I don't have time/are lazy to do it properly :)
[19:37:36] <azaghal> Lanii: Help! Your b/f is horny again! Go get him in a shower or something!
[19:37:37] <needle> ah, ok, but why, only because cmake looks good while building (so colorful) or are there any other reasons for cmake using
[19:37:51] <azaghal> Like it's not enough sueastside is waving a big cock around all the time...
[19:38:53] <needle> i think it is wasted time or big change for PT to use cmake, since there are no issues while building. But maybe there are facts i don't know about.
[19:39:30] <azaghal> needle: Well, someone needs to figure out how to write all the fancy macros to detect stuff or something.
[19:39:41] <azaghal> Or find existing stuff for CS/Boost
[19:40:26] <needle> well with much luck i will be unemployed in the next 3 months, then maybe i have more time for peragro to spent
[19:40:32] <needle> :)
[19:40:52] <sueastside> azaghal: findboost is included, CS i have a simple one in assetclient branch
[19:40:57] <needle> it is the way how i came to the "uspoken game" through unemloyment.
[19:41:27] <sueastside> needle: much luck? you want to be unemployed?
[19:41:29] <Induane> sueastside: ?
[19:41:55] <sueastside> Induane: you are brant watson right?
[19:42:08] <Induane> yea...
[19:42:25] <sueastside> Induane: then you sent me an email
[19:42:32] <Induane> when?
[19:42:39] <Induane> OH
[19:42:40] <Induane> yeta
[19:42:41] <Induane> lol
[19:42:41] <Induane> sorry
[19:42:44] <Induane> I completelyforgot
[19:42:46] <Induane> herf fun
[19:42:47] <Induane> gun*
[19:42:50] <needle> sueastside: well i could imagine better work, an my Gruppenleiter says there is new contract coming for you, but I give a fuck about words, as long as I don't get any email with that content it means nothing to me.
[19:42:50] <Induane> gotcha
[19:42:58] <Lanii> wow i really missed something...
[19:43:57] <needle> sueastside: and now i just had to go to the unemployment center here in my town to say " i probably will not get a contract next 3 months just you know people"
[19:44:39] <needle> so i get the unemployed money if i don't have work in 3 months.
[19:45:13] <sueastside> hooray for unemployment benefits
[19:47:52] <needle> so what is the road plan for cmake azaghal, when do you plan it to be ready?
[19:48:05] <needle> next 2 weeks, 3 months... ?
[19:48:42] <Lanii> o/ Induane
[19:49:37] <needle> Lanii: who are you, are you for coding here... testing?
[19:50:01] * needle bets Lanii is the next i just idle around guy
[19:50:52] <Lanii> yeah i don't actually do anything i'm really only on here because Induane is my boyfriend and i like to keep up with sueastside and some people from trinityreign
[19:51:06] <Lanii> and azaghal
[19:51:34] <V3RR3Z> AND VERREZ!
[19:51:39] <needle> all right then
[19:51:44] <V3RR3Z> j/k
[19:51:48] <Lanii> lol
[19:53:17] <V3RR3Z> http://codepad.org/JIk8DZfQ Check this out
[19:53:23] <V3RR3Z> I failed
[20:00:45] <needle> btw, gothic3 is really cool, i like that game though never played gothic at all. I think i take some vacation for next week so i can play it through in a row.
[20:01:07] <needle> it runs acceptable with wine-git and a small patch
[20:01:50] <needle> with high graphics settings. I thought about installing windows again after now nearly 4 years w/o windows for playing it
[20:02:08] <needle> but i was scared to install windows
[20:02:33] <needle> gentoo ftw
[20:05:08] <Induane> lol
[20:06:06] <azaghal> needle: I have no idea on cmake. I'm starting using it as a replacement for Makefile, to be honest :)
[20:06:18] <Induane> I've had my days with source based distro's :) Years ago (3 or 4) I didn't have a single system that the gentoo install cd's would even boot on (even though every other distro on the planets boot cd's worked fine)
[20:06:25] <azaghal> Lanii tests Induane for the most part - these tests will not be discussed here, though :)
[20:07:22] <sueastside> needle: seeing all the new branches already use cmake, its somewhat ready :)
[20:07:27] <azaghal> Induane: The _good_ thing about Gentoo is you learn how bloody hard it is to prepare packages for all those distros, and you get into some dirty stuff as well.
[20:08:50] <needle> Induane: I agree a source based distro isn't great for all people, it is just fine for me
[20:09:24] <needle> I am happy if people say me Ubuntu is really great, i don't try to convice any1 to use gentoo :(
[20:11:09] <sueastside> distros are like religions, they always try to convert
[20:12:24] <sueastside> and the internet is an AOE deathmatch with a shitload of priests going wulhoowoo on every uit that passes
[20:12:26] <Induane> azaghal: I got that from linux from scratch
[20:12:31] <sueastside> *unit
[20:13:01] <Induane> and I still have nightmares from compiling glibc
[20:13:31] <azaghal> What I like about Gentoo is that it provides edginess, ability to tweak the system to your needs (to be honest, I mostly like the feature-wise thing), and learn a bit about the complexities etc.
[20:13:34] <Induane> arch always seemed like one of the best hybrid systems
[20:13:40] <azaghal> _And_ to annoy the fuck out of you when expat changes API...
[20:14:41] <amogorkon2> gentoo is nice to learn about computers, but i will *never* use it on a production machine anymore
[20:17:31] <Deepa> Me neither
[20:17:38] <Deepa> NetBSD all the way!
[20:17:50] <Deepa>
[20:19:13] <needle> upgrading glibc isn't trivial at all, on any system.
[20:21:02] <Induane> heck just the compiling of it was a nightmare
[20:21:04] <Induane> it took FOREVER
[20:21:12] <Induane> this was years ago that I did lfs though
[20:21:20] <Induane> was to shock me into understanding unix better
[20:26:16] <needle> Deepa: is NetBSD source driven?
[20:26:43] <Deepa> source driven?
[20:26:44] <needle> since i really don't know about the freebsd, netbsd or BSD at all
[20:27:09] <needle> you get binary packages for installing or do you have to build it for your platform on BSD
[20:27:12] <needle> ?
[20:27:15] <Deepa> both
[20:27:18] <needle> ahh ok
[20:27:23] <Deepa> You get the source and build your own package
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[20:28:58] <needle> so it is source driven,... ah i remember you have so called ports on BSD systems, gentoo is similar then, since it took ports and converted it to portage .
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[20:46:46] <Induane> Deepa: is it much like arch
[20:46:58] <Deepa> I don't know arch
[20:47:00] <Induane> which has both a source install option and binary package repository
[20:47:06] <Deepa> But pkgsrc is awesome at cross-compilation
[20:47:17] <Deepa> Hmm no, it favours the usage of source
[20:47:18] <Induane> and you can set like compiler flag thingies for optimizing it to your processor if you want
[20:47:19] <Deepa> in the form of pkgsrc
[20:47:47] <Induane> so you could compile your whole system from scratch if you like, OR you could install all binary packages, or a mixture of both
[20:48:06] <Induane> I usually ran self compiled kernel and a few other packages for the core system and binary everything else
[20:53:49] <azaghal> needle: Although portage has grown a bit crappy/slow over time. I'm wondering if I should try out Paludis or not.
[20:55:03] <needle> azaghal: don't do it if you really don't need it, my flatmate tried out paludis because he was not satisfied with portage, after six month of using paludis he returned to portage since he said me paludis is not ready for use how it is now.
[20:55:27] <needle> he ran into problems with paludis after some time.
[20:55:46] <azaghal> Ah
[20:56:10] <Induane> azaghal: try sourcemage
[20:56:14] <needle> and the migration to paludis isn't trivial too. I wouldn't do it if i were you.
[20:56:16] <Induane> concurrent building
[20:56:19] <azaghal> Induane: Seen it
[20:56:20] <Induane> that alone makes it faster
[20:56:45] <Induane> plus you cast spells to install shit, and package managers are various levels of wizards
[20:56:53] <Induane> somehow that makes it cooler
[20:57:56] <needle> yeah i thought about using archmage too before 3 years, but it hasn't all the packages or spells gentoo has, so i did not do it.
[20:58:07] <needle> but it is worth trying out.
[20:59:47] <azaghal> When artists decide to make a source-based distro...
[21:00:00] <azaghal> "I'm casting a charm on the CPU to make it work faster!"
[21:00:09] <azaghal> Induane: portage does concurrent building too.
[21:01:58] <needle> azaghal: if portage is slow, try enabling "sqlite" on eix if your search queries and updates of portage are slow for you
[21:02:03] <Induane> sorry
[21:02:04] <Induane> nonblocking
[21:02:31] <azaghal> needle: I am using eix
[21:02:33] <Induane> though I heard they were fixing that
[21:03:09] <Induane> sorcery downloads stuff and then compiles as soon as the needed sources are available while other source code stuff gets downloaded in the background
[21:03:51] <needle> hmm well portage is really hudge you won't get it faster, but i noticed since i have a new machine portage is really fast now for me, it depends on your cpu, ram and harddisk too.
[21:04:01] <Induane> is reportedly also just generally faster than emerge sync
[21:04:16] <needle> Induane: there is no emerge anymore it is called eix
[21:04:27] <needle> erm emerge-sync i meant
[21:04:27] <Induane> ahh new system?
[21:04:34] <Induane> is it much faster
[21:04:38] <Induane> cause it used to take flipping forever
[21:04:49] <Induane> that alone used to make me insane
[21:05:32] <needle> i can work with eix w/o any problems i don't remember the emerge-sync time so well, it was around 2007 i think.
[21:06:26] <azaghal> needle: I've setup a local rsync for the whole portage tree :)
[21:06:34] <azaghal> I sync it every night.
[21:06:50] <needle> however if you are satisfed with archmage Induane I wouldn't change the distro if I were you.
[21:07:47] <needle> azaghal: as I do too, got a local rsync mirror too for my workstations. But I update only once a week
[21:09:23] <azaghal> needle: Well, I could probably do it less frequently. Probably Friday. :)
[21:10:10] <Induane> needle: I installed it in dual boot with gentoo and one othe I can't remember just for toying - never was patient enough to use pure source distros as a machine that was actually used
[21:10:31] <Induane> but that was the diff I noticed was mostly that everything in the sourcemage package manager was lightyears faster than on gentoo
[21:10:37] <Induane> once I figured out the spell commands lol
[21:14:02] <Induane> I actually just started using x11 forwarding for running gedit on my remote server from my laptop... and I have to say.. its awesome
[21:14:13] <Induane> dunno why I didn't before
[21:14:22] <Induane> on lan it feels like native speed app
[21:14:34] <Induane> nothing like using windows with vnc or its remote desktop connection
[21:16:36] <needle> x11 forwarding rules i know :)
[21:16:49] <Induane> I never realized just how superior it was
[21:16:57] <Induane> I get windows managed by my local windowmanager
[21:17:14] <Induane> runs like a local app but I can browse my server hard drive, and all kinds of neato jazz
[21:17:22] <Induane> does it do direct3d?
[21:17:25] <Induane> well opengl
[21:17:34] <Induane> direct 3d rendering I meant
[21:17:40] <needle> i doubt it, but i never tried it out tbh.
[21:18:13] <needle> direct 3d is m$ you mean opengl Induane
[21:19:44] <Induane> I was trying to say direct hardware accelerated 3d
[21:20:01] <Induane> I know direct3d itself is M$, was more using a phrase not an api
[21:20:15] <Induane> tried, says can't get a double buffered rgb visual
[21:22:03] <Induane> that could be because the server machine doesn't have hardware accelerated 3d
[21:22:39] <Induane> according to docs though if the server machine has a 3d capible card then it should work fine
[21:27:44] <Induane> says was even able to play tuxracer in a way that was playable
[21:36:59] <azaghal> thebolt: Polymorphic vs templated Boost.Serialization?
[21:37:38] <thebolt> azaghal: haven't used boost serialization..
[21:37:43] <thebolt> (just looked at it shortly)
[21:39:38] <azaghal> Ah, ok
[21:40:35] * Induane dances around
[21:40:44] <Induane> though I wish I could just start over redesigning this :D
[21:40:45] <Induane> oh well
[21:40:55] <Induane> I'll make it impossible to understand for anyone but myself
[21:41:00] <Induane> then make our core business dependant on it
[21:41:07] <Induane> thus making me even more indespensible
[21:41:14] <Induane> BUWAHAHAHAHAHHA YEA! YEA!
[21:41:31] <Induane> See! There are advantages to being a shitty coder!
[21:41:38] <Induane> (if I could even be called that!)
[21:41:42] <Induane> prolly not
[21:42:17] <Induane> My job title should be "someone who cobbles together shit or asks people who know what they are doing how to accomplish a task and the hacks shit together into something that somehow works but no one knows how"
[21:42:27] <Induane> Would look good on a business card I think
[21:47:28] <needle> well if you can't get it "keep it simply stupid" then no wonder no1 wants to support it or is even able to understand what you do.
[21:48:14] <needle> Induane: we make it the same on our work, KISS so you just are able to support it, but there is never time to document it.
[21:48:19] <needle> keeps your job safe
[21:48:21] <needle> :)
[21:48:58] <needle> I doubt any1 could do the job i do now since nothing is documented, or barely
[21:49:44] <needle> it is a common issue in the computer science or IT, we all do it the same so we don't lose our jobs.
[21:51:16] <needle> time to go home for me
[21:56:07] <Induane> hehhe
[21:56:07] <Induane> :D
[21:56:12] <Induane> have fun
[21:56:35] <Induane> well actually retrspectively I could have made this system a lot simpler
[21:56:44] <Induane> But I'm not sure I'll have the opportunity to
[21:56:56] <Induane> it was kind of the - uhh we need a database tomorrow sorts of things
[22:16:44] <azaghal> sueastside: I fucking hate serialization...
[22:18:57] <sueastside> azaghal: whats the problem?
[22:19:20] <azaghal> It fucking sucks. Seriously.
[22:19:55] <azaghal> I'll try using polymorphic stuff from Boost. They say it might hurt performance, but I don't really care.
[22:20:11] <sueastside> azaghal: is it slow, are you running into issues, compile/runtime,....
[22:20:32] <azaghal> sueastside: Interface is annoying, docs are crappy.
[22:20:41] <azaghal> When I figure it out, I'm writing a tutorial for it -.-
[22:21:30] <sueastside> i got it to work on that hack branch, could pick my brain
[22:22:00] <azaghal> I'm just saying it's ugly.
[22:23:43] * circeavalon pokes sue
[22:23:46] <circeavalon> sueastside:
[22:24:50] <Induane> lol
[22:25:12] <Induane> if its so ugly why use it?
[22:25:32] ChanServ sets mode: +o Induane
[22:26:15] <azaghal> Induane: We need to use some sort of serialization. And Boost one supports boost stuff...
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[22:42:45] <Induane> so if its crappy aren't there better options
[22:43:28] <Induane> C++ doesn't have a builtin api for that like C#
[22:43:33] <Induane> thats part of its standard set?
[22:44:07] <Induane> in C# there is a namespace System.Runtime.Serialization or something like that - no similar thing exists in C++ ?
[22:54:53] <azaghal> Induane: Nope
[22:55:09] <azaghal> Either Boost, some s11n thing, or our own thing.
[23:26:01] <Induane> wow
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