[00:00:59] <sueastside> having fun, ripped apart a tft, building myself a projector and now doing some uvmapping on my secret project....
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[00:04:04] <thebolt> :)
[00:04:27] <PK> ah, the infamous SP?
[00:04:44] <sueastside> no another one :)
[00:04:49] <PK> heh
[00:05:43] <sueastside> so what are you up to?
[00:06:46] <PK> well, stuff and the like
[00:07:20] <sueastside> very specific, thanks for sharing :P
[00:07:28] <PK> almost coding every day at work now.... so I'm not so eager to code in my free time anymore
[00:07:41] <sueastside> :s
[00:07:45] <thebolt> PK: hehe, know that one ;)
[00:07:53] <PK> sueastside: well I was afraid about... 'too much detail'...
[00:08:27] <PK> thebolt: speaking of which... how are the snakes doing in the entities?
[00:08:29] <sueastside> you guys should really level up a second skill....
[00:09:13] <sueastside> that way you can switch to the other if the first bores you....
[00:09:13] <PK> btw, did I tell you guys that I got my new notebook with an ati firegl?
[00:09:35] <sueastside> the hp one?
[00:09:45] <thebolt> PK: some progress a while ago, now i've been in CS coding mode for last week
[00:09:57] <thebolt> PK: i try to take a week or two for each thing before i switch to other ;)
[00:14:44] <PK> sueastside: yes
[00:14:59] <sueastside> then yes :)
[00:26:13] <PK> and bye again :)
[00:26:19] <sueastside> night
[00:26:21] <sueastside> night
[00:26:22] PK has quit: "good night"
[00:27:56] <sueastside> im off aswell, see if i can wake up before noon, so the shops are still open and i can get supplies for my projector....
[00:28:07] <sueastside> 3meter screen here i come!
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[02:32:02] <thebolt> hi Induane
[02:32:31] <Induane> hey!
[02:33:02] <Induane> While I have you - I just compiled CS from head last night - how can I activate walktest with lighter2 instead of lighter?
[02:33:38] <thebolt> Induane: lighter2 is not something you activate runtime
[02:33:45] <thebolt> it is a preprocessing tool through which you run your maps
[02:34:10] <Induane> so lighter2 is only for static lighting?
[02:34:16] <thebolt> yes
[02:34:32] <thebolt> (same way that the old lightmaper is only for static lighting)
[02:34:36] <thebolt> or static&pseudo-dynamic rather
[02:34:59] <Induane> ahh I had thought it was a new lighter system :D
[02:35:18] <thebolt> it is a lighter
[02:35:30] <thebolt> or well, _the_ new lighter ;)
[02:35:38] <thebolt> but it isn't the new system for rendering ;)
[02:35:43] <Induane> Ahh ok :D I am trying to stick to dynamic lights.
[02:35:47] <Induane> Which are a bitch
[02:37:30] <thebolt> why use dynamic? they don't bring you any extra really ;)
[02:38:02] <Induane> no relighting
[02:38:09] <Induane> so testing maps is far faster for one thing
[02:38:16] <Induane> the bronze door region in PS takes ages
[02:40:07] <thebolt> well, you get crappy lighting and terrible framerates instead
[02:40:16] <thebolt> as light is calculated (in software) when running
[02:40:48] <Induane> But I'm getting so agitated with these dynamic lights that I may be forced to go back. Framerates aren't bad though - in some cases replaceing a few statics with one dynamic yielded better framerate for me
[02:41:06] <thebolt> (and if you use hardware lighting you can use static lights.. they'll be calculated in HW anyway.. but they are a bit hard to control the scaling..)
[02:41:16] <Induane> and replaceing all 100 lights in the cavemap only took fps down 5-6 fps - it still works on my geforce2 at work
[02:41:29] <thebolt> hm, what kind of meshes do you use?
[02:41:33] <Induane> genmesh
[02:41:48] <thebolt> okay, well.. there dynamic lights are about as fast as static..
[02:41:52] <thebolt> otoh genmesh needs no relight
[02:42:07] <Induane> otoh?
[02:42:09] <thebolt> or well, it is fast[tm]
[02:42:12] <thebolt> on the other hand
[02:42:36] <thebolt> relighting genmeshes takes next to no time.. especially if they are marked to cast/recieve no shadows
[02:42:42] <thebolt> which is what you get for dynamic lighting.. no shadows
[02:43:32] <Induane> I want shadows - I was using dynamic + shadowed renderloop
[02:43:36] <Induane> seemed fine
[02:43:46] <thebolt> well, if you use shadowed renderloop you are using hardware lighting
[02:43:52] <Induane> ahhh ok
[02:43:54] <thebolt> and then dynamic or static lights makes exactly 0 difference
[02:43:59] <Induane> interesting
[02:44:02] <Induane> didn't know that
[02:44:16] <thebolt> or well, dynamic lights make take some software overhead and be slower with no gain ;)
[02:44:32] <Induane> can you do any realtime shadowing without them?
[02:44:45] <thebolt> without what?
[02:44:58] <Induane> dynamic lights
[02:45:08] <Induane> i.e. a character moves through a scene casting a shadow
[02:45:19] <thebolt> well, to do that you need hardware lighting
[02:45:34] <Induane> ahh ok hence the shadow renderloop
[02:45:34] <thebolt> and hardware lighting makes no difference between static or dynamic
[02:45:42] <thebolt> as seen from the hardware all lights are dynamic;)
[02:45:45] <Induane> or shadowed2 - dont know the difference
[02:46:06] <thebolt> shadowed2 use different algorithm that is sensitive to having properly closed meshes..
[02:46:54] <Induane> what about animating lights colors? I use extrapolated color changes in lamps to simulate flickering of lanterns and stuff
[02:47:09] <thebolt> no difference.. a tiny bit of software overhead..
[02:47:11] <Induane> can I do that with static lights on regular renderloops
[02:47:12] <Induane> ?
[02:47:23] <thebolt> what do you mean by "regular" ?
[02:47:29] <Induane> standard
[02:47:30] <Induane> or terrain
[02:47:31] <thebolt> on those using hardware lighting yes
[02:47:43] <thebolt> on those using "old-style" CS, no
[02:47:46] <thebolt> then you need pseudo-dynamic
[02:47:59] <thebolt> (which is faster than dynamic but cannot move, just change color&intensity)
[02:48:04] <Induane> so newer CS usees hardware lighting
[02:48:09] <Induane> ?
[02:48:15] <thebolt> no, it depends on the renderloop you use
[02:48:25] <Induane> which ones don't use hardware lighting?
[02:48:45] <thebolt> if you don't specify one, then it depends on what rls you write
[02:48:50] <Induane> rls ?
[02:48:54] <thebolt> renderloops ;)
[02:49:04] <thebolt> then there are so much crap in CS data folders i don't know really
[02:49:27] <Induane> oh - I can't write renderloops ;) I just meant all the other renderloops - standard, ambient, diffuse, shadowed, terrain, terrainfixed, etc?
[02:49:42] <Induane> and is there anyway to get around relighting giant terrains with lightmaps?
[02:50:51] <thebolt> well, all those but "standard" (which is what is used unless you specify one) are hardware lighting, i think..
[02:55:34] <Induane> but I mean it takes ages to relight terrain maps that are large
[02:55:49] <thebolt> well, are you sure you have to relight them at all?
[02:55:59] <Induane> unless I use a dynamic light yes
[02:56:03] <Induane> otherwise they are black
[02:56:05] <thebolt> if you are using a hardware lighting renderloop it might say "blablahblah --relight" but it sn't needed
[02:56:13] <thebolt> well, then you aren't using hardware lighting ,)
[02:56:19] <Induane> terrainfixed renderloop
[02:56:36] <thebolt> terrainfixed doesn't use hardware lighting, so yea.. it needs relighting
[02:56:44] <Induane> What about terrain ?
[02:57:06] <thebolt> terrain should be fully hw
[02:57:10] <Induane> awsome ok
[02:57:21] <Induane> I'll add a bumpmap or normalmap or whatever it wants and go with that then
[02:57:25] <Induane> brb dinner
[02:57:40] <Induane> thanks for your help btw - I have a hard time finding documentation on these thigns
[02:57:54] <Induane> so I have to pick the brains of people coherent enough to explain things clearly :_
[02:57:58] <Induane> I really appriciate it
[02:58:03] Induane changed nick to: Ind|FOOD
[03:00:39] <Ind|FOOD> so between you for these general questions and sueastside who seems to actually know about the shaders its not so bad :)
[03:01:27] <thebolt> Ind|FOOD: well, i know the shader system given i wrote 50% of it (res the other 50%).. i don't know all shaders in CS people wrote using it ;)
[03:01:52] <thebolt> anyhow, bedtime
[03:01:57] <Ind|FOOD> WAIT!
[03:01:58] <Ind|FOOD> :D
[03:02:10] <Ind|FOOD> one more pretty please? DO I need an alpha map for using terrain_splat ?
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[03:02:25] <thebolt|zzz> you need either alpha maps or materialmap palette..
[03:02:52] <Ind|FOOD> thanks :)
[03:02:55] <Ind|FOOD> hey LW|Asleep
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[08:27:44] <sueastside> Induane !!
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[23:15:29] <Induane> :D
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[23:16:11] <sueastside> Induane: finally, where have you been....
[23:16:35] <Induane> work
[23:16:35] <Induane> :(
[23:16:54] <sueastside> yuck on a saturday :s
[23:16:57] <Induane> yea
[23:16:59] <Induane> sucks :(
[23:17:05] <Induane> Just got back a little while ago
[23:17:31] <Induane> I've worked the last 3 saturdays
[23:17:53] <sueastside> bastards!!
[23:19:05] <Induane> its not their fault
[23:19:13] <Induane> its because we're behind after Jesse quit
[23:19:20] <Induane> we have a new guy that I think will work out well though
[23:19:40] <Induane> I spent alot of today training him more
[23:20:31] <sueastside> how to drink 3 gallons of beer in 3.4seconds?
[23:20:38] <Induane> ?
[23:20:45] <Induane> no - scotch
[23:21:23] * sueastside feels small and starts training some more....
[23:21:48] <Induane> :P
[23:22:03] <Induane> you will need your training if you come to visit
[23:22:37] <thebolt> hm, drinking 3 gallons of scotch.. that is hard..
[23:22:40] <sueastside> only ice tea for me...
[23:22:46] <thebolt> and expensive
[23:23:06] <Induane> someone sent us some scotch the other day :P
[23:24:22] <Induane> just for being such a cool company
[23:24:44] <thebolt> :P
[23:25:07] <Induane> sorry slow typing - just one free hand - feeding the baby
[23:25:12] <thebolt> :)
[23:25:25] <sueastside> maybe they just send it for refridgeration and youre supposed to return it....
[23:25:32] <Induane> lol
[23:25:57] <Induane> too late :)
[23:26:11] <sueastside> Induane: they call it feeding the baby these days?
[23:26:47] <Induane> aye!
[23:27:06] <Induane> keep talking sexy like that - its really working fir me
[23:28:07] <sueastside> you dont want to get too hard, you might push over the computer table....
[23:28:54] <Induane> haha not these puppies
[23:31:13] <Induane> I've got a question
[23:31:19] <Induane> I think it requires sueastside the master
[23:31:46] <sueastside> Induane: you need to wiggle it a bit, smear it with some butter, it will come right out...
[23:31:56] <Induane> I've a mesh with a texture I want to apply. The texture is named cavefloor.png - every time I apply it it changes in the
[23:32:12] <Induane> little box in the uv menu and says cavefloor.png.oo3
[23:32:12] <Induane> err
[23:32:14] <Induane> .002
[23:32:41] <Induane> if I click in there and change it back to cavefloor.png then it goes back to cavefloor.png.002 when I hit enter
[23:33:10] <sueastside> theres already something named cavefloor.png.001?
[23:33:23] <Induane> can't find it
[23:33:36] <Induane> but when I click on the arrow next to the image I get a browse datablock thingy
[23:33:45] <Induane> and there is one listed there
[23:33:52] <Induane> but there isn't a cavefloor.png datablock
[23:34:02] <Induane> just a cavefloor.png.001 and cavefloor.png.002 datablock
[23:34:58] <sueastside> hmm what about materials, is there a texture called cavefloor.png there?
[23:35:08] <Induane> nope - I don't have any materials
[23:35:23] <Induane> I do'nt do those unless I'm changing shaders
[23:37:12] <sueastside> what about the outliner, nothing there too?
[23:37:31] <Induane> outliner?
[23:37:59] <chuangzu> change the name in the main wondow not the uv one
[23:38:47] <chuangzu> oops, you already tried that nm
[23:39:14] <Induane> yea its strange
[23:39:31] <Induane> I just got around it though - exported the mesh, deleted it - reimported the .dxf
[23:39:34] <Induane> textured again
[23:39:35] <Induane> lol
[23:39:38] <Induane> I"m a loser
[23:39:54] <chuangzu> well when i had this problem sueastside said to save and reopen the file twice iirc
[23:41:40] <Induane> lol
[23:41:44] <Induane> :D
[23:42:46] <sueastside> Induane: whats funny?
[23:49:51] <Induane> the reopen thing
[23:56:41] <Induane> :P
[23:56:45] <Induane> hahahhaha
[23:56:51] <Induane> its SO FUNNY!
[23:56:52] <Induane> Get it?!
[23:56:55] <Induane> AHAHAHAHAHA
[23:56:58] <thebolt> ne?...
[23:57:41] <chuangzu> its not a joke
[23:58:29] <chuangzu> blender annoyingly holds onto the texture references in those little pop-up menus thinking you might need them agen
[23:58:34] <sueastside> its not a joke
[23:58:42] <chuangzu> when you save and reopen the file a few times it discards them