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[17:05:18] <Jekkar> grass in PS
[18:11:01] SantaClause changed nick to: Jekkar
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[19:25:42] <Darker_Dreams> Hey Jekkar, you around?>
[19:29:58] <Jekkar> yeah
[19:30:02] <Jekkar> sorry was afk
[19:30:47] <Darker_Dreams> no problem. I know some people leave their computers on lurking around here, so I didn't know if you were on or not.
[19:31:20] <Jekkar> hehe
[19:31:29] <Darker_Dreams> I caught you talking to Induane about working up a calender a couple days ago, and I was just wondering what you were looking at for real-> in game time scales.
[19:32:40] <Jekkar> well unique names of the month and a different number for everything, names for seconds, limited amount of that time in a minute with a different name for a minute, minute hour hour day and so on
[19:33:27] <Jekkar> And I recently saw somethign cool in a game where they had a different name for each week
[19:33:47] <Darker_Dreams> hrm.
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[19:33:49] <Induane> yo
[19:33:58] <Darker_Dreams> hey Induane
[19:34:08] <Induane> hey het
[19:34:25] <Darker_Dreams> That could be cool. I'd have to see it in practice though.
[19:35:03] <Jekkar> me too :P
[19:35:10] <Jekkar> i'm just throwing idea's
[19:35:14] <Jekkar> nothing really set in my head
[19:35:34] <Darker_Dreams> I was more wondering if you'd thought about the game-time to real-time ratio? like- 1 game-day = 2 hours.
[19:35:43] <Jekkar> ah
[19:35:48] <Jekkar> no, wasnt thinking about that
[19:35:54] <Jekkar> got any idea's yourself on that?
[19:37:11] <Darker_Dreams> a few. I was chatting with some of the devs about it a few days ago too.
[19:37:48] <Jekkar> I think I noticed
[19:37:56] <Darker_Dreams> you don't want a shorter midnight to midnight (or sunrise to sunrise, or whatever time of day you want to measure from) than 2 hours, if you do sky/light starts flying.
[19:38:47] <Darker_Dreams> If you go longer than about 6 time of day becomes pretty static throughout most people's play-session.
[19:39:29] <Darker_Dreams> I wasn't sure if you were on then or not.
[19:39:33] <Jekkar> well
[19:39:56] <Jekkar> would be realistic if you put only 2 cycles in one actual day
[19:40:07] <Jekkar> sun goes up and down two times in 24 real hours
[19:40:16] <Jekkar> but I can guess that brings a lot of issues
[19:40:30] <Darker_Dreams> We had more or less come to a 4 hour cycle (2 hr day 2 hr night on the equinox).
[19:40:41] <Induane> you could do 4, I think each 6 hours could be roughly = 24 hours. Night irl tends to be approx 1/3rd of a day so that means that at most its night 2 hrs, day 4 hrs
[19:41:04] <Induane> equal day/night doesn't make sense realistically
[19:41:12] <Induane> at least not on a sherical world
[19:41:40] <Darker_Dreams> It happens about once a year (equinox) sometimes night is longer (winter) sometimes day is longer (summer)
[19:41:56] <Darker_Dreams> *twice a year. derr.
[19:42:01] <Induane> Darker_Dreams well by night I mean no light
[19:42:21] <Darker_Dreams> oh, there should never be *no* light. especially on a world with 2 moons.
[19:42:32] <Induane> even in winter now after the sun goes down its still light a bit, dusky, night doesn't really start until 7:30 or so now
[19:42:35] <Darker_Dreams> well, there should be very little time with no light.
[19:42:37] <Induane> and its getting pretty light out b6 6 am
[19:42:40] <Induane> by*
[19:42:58] <Darker_Dreams> I count night as "sun behind horizon."
[19:42:59] <Induane> so night then now (shortest days) is still shorter
[19:43:32] <Induane> yea at shortest, at least at this latitude, its still roughly equal at the shortest days
[19:44:23] * Darker_Dreams waves his hands.
[19:44:49] <Jekkar> you people talk too fast
[19:44:52] <Jekkar> seriously
[19:45:25] <Darker_Dreams> Induane: regardless. this is why I'm talking about measuring from a set time to the next set time. the other parts of the day can vary relative to that.
[19:45:49] <Darker_Dreams> Jekkar: I'm slow compared to some around here. That's part of why I like using forums to do stuff.
[19:46:15] <Induane> I don't talk too fast Jekkar quit saying that I talk to fast because I don't ok!
[19:46:20] <Jekkar> :P
[19:46:22] <Induane> ;)
[19:47:09] <Jekkar> well sorry of english my being bad dreams darker, native is being not in my country, slow as not talk english
[19:49:11] <Darker_Dreams> ?
[19:49:32] <Jekkar> ;)
[19:49:33] <Induane> In any case I do think that longer day/night cycles in winter is a cool idea
[19:49:42] <Darker_Dreams> Wasn't trying to insult your english. Just saying that some of the devs talk way faster.
[19:49:44] <Induane> gauging it is the hard part, division
[19:49:48] <Darker_Dreams> It gets hard to keep up.
[19:49:49] <Jekkar> im joking DD
[19:49:53] <Darker_Dreams> kk.
[19:50:00] <Induane> WEll when they talk and are going to fast its not so much the actual typing speed
[19:50:00] <Jekkar> this is what I meant at what I said in at tjhe forum ;)
[19:50:04] <Darker_Dreams> problem with written media; no tone of voice.
[19:50:07] <Jekkar> I have a different way of talkinh
[19:50:21] <Jekkar> wow im really sucking in english all of a sudden now
[19:50:45] <Induane> so much as the : well I reimplemented the pbuffer patch to isolate a few memory leaks, Then I applied a new code patch to implement a nice IO interface to grab data from the framebuffer
[19:50:53] <Jekkar> huh?!!!!
[19:50:56] <Induane> by the time I finish going wtf
[19:50:59] <Induane> they are on to something else
[19:51:43] <Darker_Dreams> Fair enough. Damned programmers. ;-)
[19:51:50] <Jekkar> you feel my anguish
[19:52:10] <Jekkar> it's hard for a settings dev or artist to be here
[19:52:11] <Jekkar> :P
[19:52:48] <Induane> lol
[19:52:54] <Darker_Dreams> -nods-
[19:53:11] <Induane> Heck even I don't understand 50% of it and its stuff I have sort of a little experience
[19:53:14] <Jekkar> btw Induane: I commited a new patch that has the whole system variety database duped in 2 layers, I actually used dual buffering this time instead of triple hydrocore threading.
[19:53:48] <Darker_Dreams> on the other hand, it's nice to be in a project that actually has programmers as opposed to one that never gets off the ground because it's all settings.
[19:53:59] <Induane> Yea there is no need for triple hydrocore threading until quad core cpu's are minimum standard
[19:54:00] <Jekkar> never heard of that before
[19:54:09] <Jekkar> yeah
[19:54:39] <Darker_Dreams> regardless.
[19:54:44] <Induane> calander!
[19:54:45] <Induane> err
[19:54:47] <Darker_Dreams> we cool with a 4 hour cycle?
[19:54:48] <Induane> Calender!
[19:54:52] <Induane> I'm fine with it
[19:54:57] <Darker_Dreams> Jekkar?
[19:55:09] <Induane> Jekkar what about one moon having a ring system sort of like saturn? :D
[19:55:34] <Jekkar> hmmm
[19:55:40] <Jekkar> wait
[19:55:40] <Jekkar> WAIT
[19:55:44] <Jekkar> need to read up
[19:55:53] <Jekkar> yeah im cool with it
[19:55:57] <Jekkar> hmm
[19:56:15] <Jekkar> was actually excited about having more moons Ind
[19:57:15] <Induane> 2 moons also is helpful as Darker_Dreams pointed out because the world mostly won't get tooo dark
[19:57:21] <Jekkar> but thats just because im a morrowind buff
[19:58:55] <Jekkar> people still need their sleep though :P
[19:59:04] <Jekkar> maybe limit the amount of windows in houses from now on
[19:59:08] <Darker_Dreams> ok, so a 4 hour cycle makes the first "natural" break 6 days (1 real day), next is 42 days (1 real week), and then 168 days (4 weeks ~1 real month)
[19:59:17] <Darker_Dreams> eh, give 'em blinds. ;-)
[19:59:22] <Jekkar> hehe
[20:01:49] <Darker_Dreams> We can use the two moons as calender markers of their own. Set one to change phases with a "natural" month, the other could phase with the season (oh, Zatara's new, must be winter. Zatara's full, must be summer)
[20:02:03] <Darker_Dreams> (do we actually have names for the moons?)
[20:02:10] <Induane> nope
[20:02:26] <Jekkar> not yet
[20:02:36] <Jekkar> what about "The Moon"
[20:02:37] <Jekkar> ?
[20:02:40] <Jekkar> no?
[20:03:02] <Darker_Dreams> 2 of them
[20:03:09] <Darker_Dreams> doesn't work so well if there are multiples.
[20:03:14] <Jekkar> :P
[20:03:28] <Jekkar> I think it should be different in every culture
[20:03:36] <Darker_Dreams> then you have to say "the Moon" and "the Other Moon" and people get confused as to which is which.
[20:03:44] <Jekkar> Vaalnor has a germanian sound, Oro a nordic
[20:04:02] <Jekkar> if im right?
[20:04:04] <Jekkar> ind?
[20:04:31] <Darker_Dreams> What's your native language Jekkar? How many languages do you speak?
[20:04:44] <Jekkar> Dutch, German and english
[20:05:36] <Darker_Dreams> thought; *the problem with giving multiple names is it will confuse the players and/or they will simply adopt one name/set of names as a standard.
[20:05:55] <Darker_Dreams> how do you say "the moon" and "the other moon" in dutch and german?
[20:06:12] * sueastside moons the channel
[20:06:31] <sueastside> de maan, de andere maan
[20:06:36] <Jekkar> aye
[20:06:51] <Jekkar> is het hetzelfde in duits? ja he?
[20:06:58] <sueastside> geen flauw idee
[20:07:22] <sueastside> die mane ofzo lijkt me
[20:07:23] <Jekkar> its Maan in dutch and Mond in german
[20:07:36] <sueastside> hehe k
[20:08:59] <Darker_Dreams> I've got nothing against calling them Maan and Mond. But that's the kind of jerk I am. ;-)
[20:09:00] <Jekkar> and Manen in nordic
[20:09:20] <Jekkar> you jerk
[20:09:33] <Induane> what about Noom and Moon
[20:09:33] <Darker_Dreams> see, now we're up to 3 names when we needed 2 or 6.
[20:09:33] <Jekkar> it would be a nice easter egg though :P
[20:09:35] <Induane> ;)
[20:09:39] <Darker_Dreams> you jerk. ;-)
[20:09:42] <Darker_Dreams> ouch.
[20:09:47] <Induane> damn it
[20:10:02] <Jekkar> or maybe we should just call it moogie Induane
[20:10:07] <Induane> Moogie
[20:10:08] <Induane> :D
[20:10:11] <Induane> what about Moog
[20:10:15] <Induane> and Nek
[20:10:17] <Darker_Dreams> moogie?
[20:10:28] <Jekkar> nek as in neck?
[20:10:36] <Darker_Dreams> moogie nights.
[20:10:47] <Jekkar> why dont we just call it Nek and Jabba the Hut
[20:10:59] <Induane> oohhh good idea
[20:11:06] <Induane> Moogie = old insane forum mod
[20:11:17] <Jekkar> used to have a crush on me
[20:11:47] <Jekkar> what?
[20:12:15] <Jekkar> man the average age of a PS player frightens me: between 26 and 30 - 40 (16.4%)
[20:12:15] <Jekkar> between 31 and 45 - 58 (23.8%)
[20:12:30] <CyaNox> polls always lie!
[20:12:37] <Jekkar> not this time
[20:12:37] <sueastside> "Moogie: You shouldn't cry about spilled milk!"
[20:13:15] <Jekkar> she spilled milk in her fan and her pc blew up
[20:13:20] <Jekkar> dumb wench
[20:13:25] <Darker_Dreams> wow.
[20:13:42] <sueastside> hehe she was angry when i said that :D
[20:13:57] <Jekkar> sueastside this was before your time
[20:14:01] <Jekkar> child
[20:14:05] <Induane> She was head forum mod before the torch was passed to karyuu then to a cat
[20:14:17] <Jekkar> yes you heard it: a cat
[20:14:36] <sueastside> Jekkar: You have no idea how long i've been in the ps channel...
[20:14:45] <Jekkar> meh
[20:14:51] <Jekkar> maybe you're right
[20:14:53] <Jekkar> I never go there
[20:15:19] <Induane> right about what?
[20:15:28] <Jekkar> I got cursed at by a guy called Gag the minute I came in, and never returned again
[20:15:33] <Induane> Gag?
[20:15:37] <Jekkar> Gag
[20:15:49] <Induane> thats Lig_h
[20:15:51] <Induane> or whatever
[20:15:52] <Induane> ligh
[20:15:56] <Jekkar> yeah I know
[20:15:59] <Jekkar> im joking around
[20:16:00] * Darker_Dreams looks in vain for a segway back to topicality.
[20:16:03] <Jekkar> thoug he did make fun of me
[20:16:12] <Jekkar> now he's trying to make it up each day to me in-game
[20:16:38] <Induane> hmmm segway
[20:16:46] <Induane> speaking of cats cats like moons
[20:16:52] <Jekkar> aye
[20:17:12] <Induane> so what are we on?
[20:17:14] <Induane> naming the moons?
[20:17:21] <Darker_Dreams> it was a random thought.
[20:17:38] <Darker_Dreams> as far as I care they can be called bob and george.
[20:17:50] <Jekkar> thats not very settings like of you
[20:18:26] <Induane> lol
[20:18:48] <Jekkar> what about making the moons gods or something
[20:18:58] <Darker_Dreams> yeah, but we were talking about calenders and a vauge query digressed into several pages of babble... So, at the moment, we have the moons; "Bob and George pending a better rename"
[20:19:00] <Induane> how about perceived as gods
[20:19:06] <Jekkar> yes
[20:19:07] <Darker_Dreams> there's a thought.
[20:19:08] <Jekkar> thats what I mean
[20:19:19] <Jekkar> I know druids here used to worship the moon
[20:20:15] <Jekkar> and val had written a cult that worshipped the moon or moons
[20:20:17] <Darker_Dreams> I had an idea that one of the cultures might think that the portals were divine, like the Oros view them as the "sacred flame" or something. Have one of the others worship the moon would be a cool contrast.
[20:20:51] <Jekkar> I think the oro's are a civilised people just very bitter
[20:21:07] <Jekkar> in my view Oro was always this serious civilization that didnt take shit from anyone
[20:21:17] <Jekkar> Kvalis are the barbarians
[20:21:26] <Jekkar> would be more logical
[20:21:54] * Darker_Dreams goes and reviews the settings material.
[20:22:02] <Jekkar> read political
[20:22:06] <Jekkar> that may clear some stuff up
[20:22:14] <Induane> being barbarians they might still be inclined to be a bit supersticious
[20:22:24] <Jekkar> aye
[20:22:25] <Jekkar> a bit?
[20:22:26] <Jekkar> a lot
[20:22:28] <Induane> or very :)
[20:22:53] <Jekkar> wha'ever!
[20:22:57] <Jekkar> I do what I wan!
[20:23:20] <Induane> In fact at that sort of time period something like those portals would probably globally be perceived as divine or similar by most of the populus
[20:23:38] <Darker_Dreams> if they know about them.
[20:23:41] <Jekkar> The Kvalis are the settled descendants of the nomadic tribes that once roamed much of of the continent. They are a highly religious society worshiping a variety of gods in their complex mythology. Though their population has settled they maintain many of their customs including sparse clothing made from animal skins that have been dyed in many colors, and a fierce distrust of outsiders. While they do engage in a fair amount of trade, they prefer
[20:23:52] <Darker_Dreams> remember, you've got them all guarded and locked up.
[20:23:57] <Induane> I think they are important enough that the populus is pretty aware of them at least to some degree
[20:24:01] <Induane> misconceptions would be common though
[20:25:04] <Jekkar> I'm off
[20:25:07] <Jekkar> take care kids
[20:25:17] <Induane> bye daddy
[20:25:19] <Darker_Dreams> later.
[20:25:22] <Induane> bring me back candy
[20:25:26] <Jekkar> will do
[20:25:27] <Induane> I like licorice remember
[20:25:36] <Jekkar> I do remember
[20:31:01] <Darker_Dreams> Jekkar's been wondering how you know which way to model the spin of the water in a toilet flush for a while?
[20:31:21] <Induane> I'm just going to make it fly upwards in peoples faces at first
[20:31:34] <Induane> then they will get a charisma debuff for a week
[20:31:45] <Darker_Dreams> ouch.
[20:31:50] <CyaNox> "I aprove!" --> http://gallery.cyanox.nl/main.php/v/midas/IMG_6608.JPG.html
[20:32:19] <Darker_Dreams> good looking cat.
[20:32:26] <Darker_Dreams> no idea what it has to do with anything.
[20:33:26] <CyaNox> he aproves Induane's toilet idea.
[20:33:44] <Darker_Dreams> ah, cat's approve of most any idea that has to do with toilets.
[20:33:55] <Induane> OMG
[20:33:58] <Darker_Dreams> as long as it doesn't involve them being wet.
[20:34:00] <Induane> It all makes sense now
[20:34:03] <Induane> CyaNox is Neko
[20:34:25] * CyaNox wonders what that is and how to properly respond to that
[20:35:10] <Induane> Neko is head forum moderator for PS now
[20:35:13] <Induane> He is a cat.
[20:35:53] <CyaNox> ah no ... totally wrong I'm CyaNox my minion Midas just got moderator priviliges in the forum.
[20:36:00] <Induane> ahh
[20:36:13] <CyaNox> And with that also randomly state certain things.
[20:36:20] <CyaNox> as a good moderator should do.
[20:38:06] <Darker_Dreams> So, how long do we want to make a year.
[20:38:22] <Darker_Dreams> in terms of real time?
[20:38:39] <Induane> hmmm
[20:38:44] <Induane> well
[20:38:49] <Induane> given a 4 hour day
[20:38:55] <Darker_Dreams> ATM, assuming a 4 hour day-cycle, a month gives us something like 148 days
[20:38:55] <Induane> do the math and see what that is in earth years :)
[20:39:23] <Darker_Dreams> 168 days. sorry.
[20:39:41] <Induane> hmm
[20:39:54] <Darker_Dreams> so a 4 hour cycle makes the first "natural" break 6 days (1 real day), next is 42 days (1 real week), and then 168 days (4 weeks ~1 real month)
[20:39:58] <Darker_Dreams> 6 day week.
[20:40:03] <Darker_Dreams> 42 day month
[20:40:19] <Darker_Dreams> 168 day "season"
[20:40:24] <Darker_Dreams> ?
[20:40:35] <Darker_Dreams> (these are game-days, not real days)
[20:41:04] <Induane> with two moons what from a settings perspective are months based on then?
[20:42:50] <Darker_Dreams> Depends on the cycle of each moon.
[20:43:33] <Induane> each?
[20:43:43] <Induane> Just wondering what you had in mind for how it would work
[20:43:43] <Induane> :)
[20:44:07] <Darker_Dreams> well, if one is clearly longer or shorter than a month, then it obviously isn't tied to that.
[20:44:27] <Darker_Dreams> Example; moon 1 has a cycle of 6 days, moon 2 has a cycle of 30 days. moon 2 sets month.
[20:44:58] <Darker_Dreams> Example; Moon 1 has a cycle of 42 days, moon 2 has a cycle of 150 days. moon 1 sets month.
[20:45:11] <Induane> ahhh that is a good idea
[20:45:18] <Induane> so the one traverses the sky much faster
[20:45:24] <Darker_Dreams> Example: moon 1 has a cycle of 6 days, moon 2 has a cycle of 150 days. Go fish.
[20:46:22] <Darker_Dreams> right. You're talking about moons of different sizes, different orbits, different speeds, and thus different cycle lingths.
[20:46:30] <Induane> aye
[20:46:43] <Darker_Dreams> want to have some fun? give the planet rings and make legends about the other moon(s).
[20:46:57] <Induane> planet rings :) that could be cool to see in the sky
[20:47:01] <Induane> I like that idea
[20:47:03] <Darker_Dreams> I thought so.
[20:47:26] <Induane> each moon would cut a slice through the rings at different parts of it
[20:49:09] <Darker_Dreams> I thought most of the moons on ringed planets were outside or offset from the rings. have to go look at that later.
[20:49:36] <CyaNox> hhmmm I recall a discussion a long time ago about this and we came to 8 hours is one full day.
[20:49:49] <Induane> CyaNox you said that last time we talked about it
[20:49:57] <Induane> and I asked if it was really a big deal or set in stone
[20:50:02] <Induane> I think you said no
[20:50:14] <CyaNox> I did indeed
[20:50:38] <Induane> then why project that into the discussion?
[20:51:03] <CyaNox> well I was hoping to see someone ask why 8 hours.
[20:51:25] <Darker_Dreams> My concern with an 8 hr day is that you'll have players who log on, play their entire session in a single day or night having walked/ridden/whatever hundreds of miles.
[20:51:31] <Darker_Dreams> why 8 hours?
[20:51:51] * Darker_Dreams feels like he's doing the setup for a joke.
[20:52:24] * Darker_Dreams suspects it's going to be a bad joke.
[20:52:44] <CyaNox> well if you consider the technical point of few I think stretching the days as long as possible is best.
[20:52:53] <CyaNox> Else you will have to change lighting so much.
[20:52:57] <Induane> problem is you strech nights pretty long too....
[20:53:18] * Darker_Dreams realizes he's the only non-mod in a room with 4 mods.
[20:53:29] CyaNox sets mode: +o Darker_Dreams
[20:53:45] * Darker_Dreams realizes he's suddenly a mod.
[20:53:56] * Induane preps his kickban shortcuts in case of war
[20:54:17] <CyaNox> anyway I just wanted to mention it to take in account the lighting issue. None has really talked about it or tried stuff with it yet. So this might be a limitation.
[20:54:20] * Darker_Dreams is a little puzzled why he's talking solely in actions
[20:54:35] * Induane wonders as well
[20:54:50] * CyaNox points to the topic
[20:55:02] <Induane> CyaNox can't we just trigger some pseudo dynamic lights via an ingame trigger and let it go from there?
[20:55:05] * Darker_Dreams is formulating his reply.
[20:55:26] <CyaNox> Induane: what about the static lightmaps ... those shadows will be wrong then.
[20:55:48] <Induane> CyaNox with pseudo-dynamic I think it basically raises and lowers the general lighting levels
[20:55:57] <Induane> eventually reaching a point where shadows disappear
[20:56:11] <Induane> now if we move to fully dynamic renderloops (well not renderloops in the next rm)
[20:56:16] <Induane> then its not an issue at all
[20:56:25] <CyaNox> Induane: well not really. Thats just changing the ambient colors. Has not much to do with pseudo dynamic lights.
[20:56:48] <CyaNox> Induane: But I think the technical details should be discussed with sueastside and maybe prepare some tests.
[20:56:52] <Induane> CyaNox in pseudodynamic though there aren't shadow projectinos
[20:56:54] <Induane> projections*
[20:57:09] <Induane> in any case atm lighter2 doesn't even handle pseudodynamic right
[20:57:11] <Induane> :)
[20:57:18] <Darker_Dreams> that light shift is a fair point. I'm not sure what the technical limits are, so everything I talk about is presumptive. I can talk about good gameplay, and I can talk about good mechanics. I'm utterly unqualified to consider what art and tech can do.
[20:57:28] <Darker_Dreams> As a note, the light shift happens anyway regardless of the speed.
[20:58:08] <Darker_Dreams> so if shadows are static, it's not going to matter if they're static for a 4 hour cycle or an 8 hour cycle... unless the sun stays locked in the same position- they'll always end up wrong eventually.
[20:58:11] <CyaNox> Darker_Dreams: Yes shifts do happen but if you make the interfal small it is barely noticable. Which looks more dynamic which is what I want to see.
[20:58:21] <Darker_Dreams> interfal?
[20:58:30] <CyaNox> But making this interfal happen too fast is a big hit on performanc
[20:58:47] <CyaNox> hhmmm maybe too technical for you
[20:58:56] <Darker_Dreams> maybe.
[21:00:10] <Darker_Dreams> interval?
[21:00:50] <sueastside> preferably all dynamic with shadowmaps, we'll have to sacrifice light detail then keep lights to a bare minimum, so no lanterns shining lights outside (they can still glow though) inside we'd prolly still stick to pseudodynamic lightmaps...
[21:01:52] <CyaNox> well I'd love to see lots of lights an realistic shadow castings. But one of the things I've noticed with CS is that is one of the majorly lacking parts in it.
[21:02:41] <CyaNox> To be honest I think the only thing important with lighting is the shadows.
[21:02:43] <sueastside> well with the new rendermanager basicly everything about lights will change, so we'll have to wait a bit nd test anew...
[21:03:37] <CyaNox> I do hope the new rendermanager solves the issues but I think it will still be quite touchy.
[21:04:09] <Darker_Dreams> so, what you're telling me is that from a technical standpoint we may not be able to have a day cycle of less than 8 hours without it playing havoc with the art?
[21:04:12] <sueastside> well it will be new, so we'll be guinea pigs again...
[21:04:34] <CyaNox> sueastside: when havent we not been that ... :P
[21:05:04] <CyaNox> Darker_Dreams: Possibly but it is currently undetirmined or even tried.
[21:05:53] <Darker_Dreams> so, a calender should probably wait.
[21:06:18] <CyaNox> well a calender can always be tweaked once we know what is possible.
[21:06:35] <sueastside> CyaNox: You need to go active again, i promised PT would release when dukenukem forever goes gold, and i just saw a trailer...
[21:06:47] <Induane> otoh if you write some story with reference to the calender it should be acurate
[21:06:56] <CyaNox> sueastside: Well they have not released yet ... so don't worry
[21:07:36] <CyaNox> Induane: Even that can be tweaked. I've seen things being tweaked regarding settings a lot.
[21:08:23] <Darker_Dreams> If the length of the day isn't set then tying it to real time gets iffy. People think in earth-days and weeks, so tying the two together makes it easier for them to get into the world.
[21:10:32] <CyaNox> hhhmmm I disagree ... if you ingame only use the ingame time scale I think people will get less confused.
[21:11:03] <CyaNox> and if you mix you have to take two scales into account.
[21:11:14] <Darker_Dreams> I'm not talking about referring to out of game time scales in-game.
[21:11:59] <CyaNox> just mention a day might be between 1 hour and 24 hours ... I think that will be acurate no matter how much we tweak.
[21:13:48] <Darker_Dreams> accurate, but completely uninformative.
[21:14:11] <CyaNox> you could also state something but also state that it might change.
[21:14:19] <Darker_Dreams> I'm more worried about questions like; how many days there are in a week.
[21:14:46] <CyaNox> those are in my opinion details that do not matter yet.
[21:15:06] <CyaNox> although it is nice to know it is not important.
[21:15:16] <Darker_Dreams> easy answer is real day=game week (for all values where the game day is less than ~4-6 hours)
[21:19:16] <CyaNox> yes settings are complicated when limitations have not been tested yet.
[21:20:30] Jekkar has joined #peragro-settings
[21:20:31] <Induane> CyaNox how themeable is mediawiki?
[21:20:41] ChanServ sets mode: +o Jekkar
[21:20:43] <Induane> could we produce a theme that matches the one on the main site colorwise?
[21:20:47] <CyaNox> Induane: quite entirely.
[21:20:59] <CyaNox> Induane: yes you can.
[21:21:00] <Induane> hmm ok how would I go about working on that sometime?
[21:21:04] <Jekkar> is elf sex doable with current code?
[21:21:09] <Induane> just dl some theme and hack it up?
[21:21:21] <CyaNox> Induane: possibly yes
[21:21:36] <CyaNox> Induane: I really havent tried much aside from changing the logo.
[21:21:56] <CyaNox> Induane: I never felt the need to change it
[21:22:09] <Induane> Just feels funny clicking on forum and going white
[21:22:10] <CyaNox> Induane: But I know there are some pretty amazing themes out there.
[21:22:41] <Induane> cool
[21:22:45] <Induane> I'll look into that sometime
[21:22:51] <Induane> probbly after chrismas hell
[21:23:18] <Jekkar> that would explain santa's red suit
[21:25:29] <CyaNox> owh Jekkar I might have a taks for you which you might like (or not)
[21:25:34] * CyaNox goes to pm
[21:26:50] <Jekkar> k
[21:28:36] <Jekkar> ugh Cyanox, how could you!
[21:29:31] <CyaNox> well ... because I can?
[21:29:35] <Jekkar> you barbarian!
[21:29:56] <Induane> Jekkar is NOT into sheep
[21:30:02] <Induane> they have hte same number of chromosomes as humans
[21:30:12] <Induane> thats bad because there is the potential for impregnation
[21:30:15] <Jekkar> thanks for that biography lesson :P
[21:30:26] <sueastside> Induane: you watched Black sheep didnt you? :)
[21:30:27] <Induane> I'm pretty sure that explains Yetti
[21:30:31] <Induane> sueastside ??
[21:30:35] <Induane> Whats Black Sheep?
[21:30:46] <sueastside> some horror movie
[21:30:56] <Induane> Try: I read "Scientific America"
[21:31:28] <Induane> I like it becausae it includes verbatum articles from real science journals as articles isntead of lame dumbed down stuff like Discover and Popular Science
[21:33:31] <sueastside> Hey its not because i like scrapheap challenge on discovery that im some stupid american!
[21:33:41] <Jekkar> I hate those kind of programs
[21:33:44] <Jekkar> with all my heart
[21:33:46] <Jekkar> they are so bad
[21:34:00] <Jekkar> the word metal is strictly limited to me in music
[21:34:16] <sueastside> they build a jetengine out of junk, you gotta admit thats cool!
[21:34:21] <Jekkar> no
[21:34:23] <Jekkar> its awful
[21:34:37] <sueastside> you're such a girl some times!
[21:34:59] <Jekkar> I am in touch with nature and my druid ancestors
[21:35:06] <Jekkar> I do not crave jetengines
[21:35:17] * Induane drops from a tree looking like a giant porkupine monkey
[21:35:27] <Jekkar> now that is interesting!
[21:35:48] <Jekkar> now all we need is a voiceover telling us how it lives
[21:36:29] <sueastside> bah if i wanted to see that i would watch America's most wanted or derrivate show...
[21:36:52] <sueastside> America's most boring videos
[21:36:56] <Jekkar> you are a disgrace to your gaelic ancestors sueastside
[21:37:34] <sueastside> Tsk if my warrior ancestors knew what a jetengine was they would build it!
[21:37:56] <Jekkar> I prefer axe above a laser gun
[21:38:02] <Jekkar> you sound like an american
[21:38:23] <sueastside> tsk you could have best of both worlds, a lightsaber!
[21:38:35] <Jekkar> hmmm
[21:38:38] <Jekkar> youve got a point there
[21:47:59] <Jekkar> as god erects our penis he will light our way
[21:48:07] <Induane> that was beautful
[21:48:46] <Jekkar> start your day right with a delicious hot 3 or 6 foot penis
[21:49:57] <Induane> I like thanksgiving season here
[21:50:07] <Induane> people always pool money for radio ads about Dickens Cider
[21:50:21] <sueastside> dickens cider box :D
[21:50:52] <Induane> "My friend told me that when she gets up in the morning the only thing she can think about is a hot Dickens Cider."
[21:50:55] <sueastside> "I always needed my mom's help to squeesh a dickens cider box" :)
[21:51:09] <Jekkar> :D
[21:51:59] <Induane> "I was at work the other day and Julie was really feeling down. I knew a hot Dickens Cider would cheer her up so I made sure she got some all day long."
[21:53:56] <Induane> THey really play them too
[21:54:06] <Induane> the stupid radio ad people never notice until its too late
[21:54:12] <Induane> then they pull them
[21:54:42] <Jekkar> most people should have gotten it by now right?
[21:55:24] <Induane> well
[21:55:30] <Induane> seems to rotate every few years
[21:55:35] <Jekkar> morons
[21:55:36] <Induane> various parts of the country
[21:55:37] <Induane> yea
[21:56:00] <Induane> morons is a nice word for the radio people
[21:56:30] <sueastside> i bet they know they just play dumb to get around the managers...
[22:01:39] <Jekkar> "Krantenbezorger is pyromaan 'T Zandt."
[22:01:51] <Jekkar> shit ze hebben me uitgevogeld :P
[22:04:29] <sueastside> lol uitgevogeld, das zo degoutant :P
[22:05:54] <Jekkar> alleen als je door denkt
[22:05:57] <Jekkar> en dat doe jij weer
[22:06:01] <Jekkar> vies mannetje
[22:08:17] <CyaNox> hhhmmm dan vraag ik me af wat men liever is ... en vies mannetje of een gapakte piromaan ... :D
[22:08:42] <Jekkar> geloof ik krijg je meer voor wildplassen dan een fikkie steken in een schuur :P
[22:09:11] <CyaNox> Wild plassen kost 65 euro tegenwoordig ... :P
[22:09:58] <Jekkar> ja mooi toch :)
[22:10:06] <sueastside> hey ni tege die mure zeike makker, die stene rotte weg!
[22:10:19] <Jekkar> :D
[22:12:37] <Jekkar> gekke belgjes
[22:14:27] <sueastside> im feeling bad for those other people, you shouldnt make fun of them in another language Jekkar!
[22:14:46] <Jekkar> tisk tisk sueastside
[22:14:52] <sueastside> :)
[22:15:15] <Jekkar> I'd make fun of them in english
[22:15:27] <Jekkar> I'd want them to feel the hit wouldnt I
[22:16:00] <sueastside> true
[22:44:09] <sueastside> Jekkar: Are you around for nother 10 minutes?
[22:44:14] <sueastside> *another
[22:49:13] <sueastside> Jekkar: http://dl.peragro.org/win32/peragro-16-12-2007.zip try with this one, art package remains the same.
[23:11:04] <Jekkar> yes
[23:11:16] <Jekkar> k
[23:12:00] <Jekkar> isnt that the same file like before?
[23:12:34] <sueastside> i updated it
[23:12:37] <Jekkar> k
[23:12:39] <Jekkar> trying now
[23:13:34] <Jekkar> bravo sueastside :)
[23:14:59] <Jekkar> now...how to get to vaalnor ;)
[23:15:08] <sueastside> talk to test_dummy
[23:15:31] <Jekkar> ah yes
[23:15:32] <Jekkar> loading now
[23:16:13] <Jekkar> which I expect is gonna take a while since I always have performance issues in vaalnor
[23:16:27] <Induane> it takes a bit to load on my machine too
[23:16:36] <Jekkar> an hour as well? :P
[23:16:43] <Induane> no more like 2 minutes
[23:16:52] <Jekkar> is it lit?
[23:18:00] <Jekkar> stupid question, nevermind
[23:18:27] <Jekkar> you think in the future you can get these performance issues fixed?
[23:20:03] <sueastside> if Induane would go soo crazy with the meshcount...
[23:20:33] <Jekkar> its loaded but it's performing really crappy
[23:20:57] <sueastside> hit T
[23:21:21] <Jekkar> well I wish, it's loading so slow I can't even get the program to respond normally
[23:21:41] <Jekkar> and now im in blakcness
[23:22:08] <Jekkar> and that's not funny sueastside
[23:22:15] <Jekkar> alt f4 for magic items
[23:22:24] <Jekkar> now I can load all over again
[23:25:23] <Jekkar> beh i'll try again tommorow
[23:26:23] <Jekkar> take care kids, thanks for figuring out the problem sueastside
[23:30:33] Induane has quit: "[BX] iTs bEttEr tO bUrN oUt tHaN tO fAdE aWaY"