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[17:29:21] <thebolt> iceeey: i realized another advantage with the python stuff we talked about the other day
[17:29:26] <iceeey> yeah?
[17:29:28] <thebolt> you can define central entity(templates) in c++
[17:29:48] <iceeey> ah true
[17:30:07] <thebolt> as boost::python allows you to inherit classes in python from c++ classes
[17:30:14] <iceeey> yep
[17:30:43] <thebolt> it also helps development speed.. you can write it in python "for now" and then move it over
[17:44:58] <iceeey> also, I've been thinking about migration
[17:45:02] <thebolt> okay?
[17:45:47] <iceeey> i can't decide whether it's best to write scripts to do it or to do it 'manually'
[17:46:08] <PK> migration of what?
[17:46:22] <iceeey> the db data when you modify the schema
[17:47:59] <iceeey> heh.. this would be funny: modifying the python entity template classes dynamically, by removing/adding fields
[17:48:11] <iceeey> which subsequently changes the db
[17:48:21] <thebolt> :P
[17:48:56] <PK> well, simple things can be done automatically, like adding a new field to a table... but more complex changes can't be migrated automatically
[17:50:30] <iceeey> also I'd like to keep the python code out of the database.. it's much better to use SVN than implement a versioning system on top of a db :)
[17:50:47] <thebolt> hm, true
[17:51:26] <PK> I guess it depends on where you want to have things... take for example NPC dialogs... would you put those in files and commit or put them in the database?
[17:52:09] <iceeey> PK, they would be stored in the database because they're made of data :)
[17:52:21] <iceeey> the NPC dialog model itself would be spelled out in code though
[17:52:21] <PK> what about dialog actions?
[17:52:34] <iceeey> depends on how we implement those
[17:52:40] <PK> indeed
[17:52:41] <iceeey> could be just a reference to code
[17:52:50] <PK> It's also the question who's using the python code... is it game specific (just for peragro 'the game') or more general and reusable
[17:53:18] <iceeey> if it's reusable, then we'll keep it so
[17:54:21] <PK> keep it so? in the svn you mean?
[17:55:06] <iceeey> if it's code it goes in SVN
[17:55:22] <iceeey> if it's reusable, it'll go in some general framework python module
[17:57:51] <PK> I guess then we'd probably best just reference a python function as dialog or quest action... or condition. which we put in a file then?
[17:58:09] <iceeey> yup
[17:58:29] <PK> what about simple quest conditions? like if (gender = foo && level > bar) ? is that code or data?
[18:00:03] <iceeey> well if you put it like that, it's code
[18:00:19] <iceeey> but it really depends on how flexible you make quests
[18:03:41] <iceeey> personally, i think that should be in a behavior
[18:03:49] <PK> imho, the only way to make PT more interesting than... let's say Silkroad (which is free to play)... is to have better quests than "Because , go kill <#amount> of and I give you <#reward>" :)
[18:04:01] <iceeey> yeah
[18:04:34] <iceeey> well you do need to abstract it somewhat, unless you want to reimplement it for each quest
[18:04:54] <iceeey> but the entity system won't be limiting it
[18:05:01] <PK> Silkroad was kinda fun to play, but somewhere in the quest of killing over 3000 (three thousand) bandits it grew kinda boring :)
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[18:22:18] <sueastside> there has to be other challening things then just killing stuff....
[18:24:55] <PK> yep, or at least other ways to achieve the same...
[18:25:24] <sueastside> or trying to find a way to bind a socket to multiple adresses :)
[18:25:59] * sueastside doesnt get all that network stuff
[18:26:14] <PK> I kinda like how it's done in NWN... although that's a singleplayer game... there you have for example the problem that some mobs are attacking villages... then you can either kill or negotiate :)
[18:26:53] <PK> sueastside: what are you trying to do with the socket?
[18:26:55] <sueastside> or sit down, grap some popcorn and watch :)
[18:27:11] <PK> yep, that you can do too in NWN2 :)
[18:28:10] <sueastside> PK: messing around with stackless python.... http://rafb.net/p/vUyXZb70.html
[18:29:11] <sueastside> but seems people cant connect to me from the outside :s
[18:30:27] <iceeey> ooh fun
[18:35:24] <PK> you don't wanna use that for PT, do you? because then we could as well write everything in python :)
[18:36:54] <sueastside> no, just to mess around, i want to have a headstart when the entity stuff is layed out, so i can start scripting behaviours :)
[18:37:51] <iceeey> :)
[18:37:55] <iceeey> yeah, another thing we didn't address was whether we were using stackless
[18:37:57] <PK> sueastside: about "grap some popcorn and watch" in nwn2 there is a part where some wizards want to attack a sorceress and in a dialog you can answer (if your chaotic) "Go on and attack each other, it's been a while since I've seen a good lightshow" :-)
[18:41:37] <sueastside> PK: youre nwn obsession is disturbing :P
[18:48:20] <PK> eh, well, with the nwn2 toolset I can look at the npc dialogs of the official compains... quite interesting how they did dialogs, scriping and cutscenes :)
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[20:13:40] <PK> any of you know the eclipse gmf project?
[20:17:45] <sueastside> nope
[20:18:36] <PK> It's a graphical modeling framework (well, G.M.F.) which is kinda like visio or so. Just that you can model your own modeler with it.
[20:19:33] <PK> I wonder if we could use it to develop dialogs, quests or so
[20:24:33] <sueastside> using nodes and outliner?
[20:25:01] <PK> ehm, yes (I guess)
[20:25:52] <PK> I think you could place dialog nodes and connect them to answers and the answers to other text nodes... so you could build a complete conversation all graphical
[21:01:20] <PK> sueastside: done... I started short after my last sentence: http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6246/dialogeditor6en.jpg <-- so this editor I've created in less than 30min
[21:32:47] <sueastside> PK: nice
[21:33:16] <sueastside> now make one for shadertrees :P (if you were following the CS channel...)
[21:33:47] <sueastside> *shadetrees
[21:35:25] <PK> nope, I haven't :)
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