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[16:31:01] <Caym> why is Cyanox still here ?
[16:31:02] <Induane_> hey
[16:31:09] <Jekkar> shut up caym
[16:31:15] <Jekkar> induane, what do you need done asap?
[16:31:28] <Caym> er weren't we gonna pimp up the maces
[16:32:31] <Induane_> Jekkar first up is the weapons in svn
[16:32:35] <Induane_> then the shield
[16:32:36] <Induane_> s
[16:32:46] <Induane_> I started unwrapping them last night
[16:33:00] <Jekkar> half of the weapons is kinda shite induane
[16:33:33] <Induane_> what do you mean?
[16:33:36] <Induane_> most are fairly basic
[16:33:39] <Jekkar> like half the maces
[16:33:44] <Induane_> ahh
[16:33:53] <Induane_> yea I didn't model those. I fixed them up as best I could
[16:34:02] <Caym> basic isn't the main problem
[16:34:02] <Induane_> they will work for crappy low level items I figure
[16:34:06] <Jekkar> so yeah we cant do half the maces
[16:34:06] <Caym> they just look stupid
[16:34:09] <Jekkar> yeah
[16:34:20] <Caym> all crooked and just shapes that don't make sense
[16:34:26] <Induane_> like I said, some of those I can throw a base metal/wood texture on and be done with.
[16:34:36] <Caym> they need to be redone
[16:34:38] <Induane_> so I wouldn't worry about spending time on the junky ones
[16:34:48] <Caym> listen, if you're actually ready to pay attention to what i do
[16:35:00] <Caym> i can spend time on making concept art for weapons, basic, that actually make sense
[16:35:08] <Caym> using sensible reference and shit
[16:35:10] <Induane_> There isn't really anythign wrong with the models and they were all done from some from a museum photo so they are based on real crap - something DD found one day when he was at my house.
[16:35:24] <Caym> not all of them
[16:35:25] <Induane_> but I agree I'm not a huge fan of them all
[16:35:35] <Induane_> maces 1 through 6 were
[16:35:41] <Jekkar> 1 to 3
[16:35:43] <Induane_> well 6 I added and end on
[16:35:55] <Jekkar> 1 to 3 are the only decent ones
[16:36:07] <Induane_> I never said any were awesome
[16:36:09] <Induane_> jsut real
[16:36:15] <Caym> sorry to insist but really concept art is kinda the basis of this shit
[16:36:16] <Induane_> real doesn't always mean good or awesome
[16:36:27] <Caym> could we sort of make a plan to deal with this ?
[16:36:52] <Caym> like, what style of stuff do you people want
[16:36:59] <Caym> apparently, real, right ?
[16:37:09] <Caym> like, the knives i've done, it's not acceptable, or is it ?
[16:37:13] <Jekkar> depends on the civ we're making the swords for
[16:37:20] <Induane_> Plan: basic texture the junkier ones and utilize as low level shit items for now. We can always model more. The knives for instance I can model pretty easy
[16:37:23] <Induane_> they are nice and clear concepts
[16:37:33] <Caym> except there's no definition of art styles whatsoever for civs
[16:37:43] <Caym> which is a huge motherfucking stupid state of things
[16:37:48] <Jekkar> well
[16:38:01] <Caym> that's what i wanted to do with the "new" artists
[16:38:05] <Caym> and a chan
[16:38:09] <Induane_> what I'd do for now is go through the weapons and texture the ones you think are best/most worth texturing
[16:38:13] <Caym> try to come up together with visual identities and shit
[16:38:34] <Jekkar> there's not much worth texturing man
[16:38:49] <Caym> yeah we were gonna do that anyway
[16:39:01] <Caym> which is also why the whole artistic process needs a coherent backbone
[16:39:06] <Induane_> for Vaaloria think greek/roman influence, for the Kvalis think sort of barbarian with some mesoamerican influences, for Oro think somewhat icelandic
[16:39:23] <Caym> we need to create visual references for this
[16:39:34] <Caym> to have some fucking coherence for all the artists
[16:39:39] <Caym> except they don't give a crap
[16:40:52] <Caym> so dunno, it's up to you staffers to settle this
[16:40:57] <Caym> i can only bitch to walls so much
[16:42:09] <Caym> anyway, that's how Jekkar & I will work, or try to
[16:42:17] <Induane_> I don't have the ability to create visual references by hand
[16:42:39] <Induane_> but I agree
[16:42:43] <Induane_> style coherence is important
[16:42:46] <Caym> yeah that would be us, and what the chan is for
[16:42:55] <Caym> i guess you'd be more on the "putting your foot down" side
[16:43:05] <Caym> to make shit less random
[16:45:21] <Induane_> thats why we've stuck with more generic stuff for now
[16:45:31] <Caym> ok so here's my plan
[16:45:43] <Induane_> style isn't too important at that point because its generic. Most games have just some "generic" items
[16:45:45] <Caym> first, we'll texture existing shit quick
[16:45:51] <Caym> then
[16:46:08] <Caym> i propose that Jekkar & I (or anyone else that cares) try to come up with this visual crap
[16:46:19] <Induane_> Once there is some themed concepts I can start to work through modeling those
[16:46:30] <Induane_> the knives being a good example
[16:46:31] <Caym> like, doodle random shit, show to everyone and decide what stays and what doesn't
[16:46:45] <Induane_> THough some of the detail on those I would likely still leave to the texture
[16:47:03] <Induane_> so long as random doodles aren't screamed at for not being professioanl quality...
[16:47:14] <Jekkar> shut up and listen prick
[16:47:22] <Induane_> I am listening
[16:47:34] <Caym> well as long as we're on the trying to define stuff, it doesn't matter i guess
[16:47:38] <Induane_> But I'm also not a fan of running down quick and dirty concepts like a jackass.
[16:47:42] <Caym> later, it's gonna have to be actually useful, so not crap
[16:47:52] <Jekkar> they are fucking shit, if they hear it at least they'll get better
[16:48:40] <Caym> like, for Vaaloria, we'll just doodle every roman shit we can come up, try to work on this with more original shit and refine it until we come up with core ideas
[16:49:01] <Caym> sounds good Jekkar ?
[16:49:06] <Jekkar> yeah
[16:49:31] <Jekkar> yeah sounds good
[16:50:15] <Caym> when we have come up with enough different stuff, we'll just show it to everyone
[16:50:32] <Caym> and try to find consensus as to what should stay and what should go
[16:50:46] <Caym> hoping that anyone will actually give a crap
[16:50:50] <Caym> or else it'll just be us
[16:51:06] <Induane_> Jekkar those polearm concepts were perfectly clear to me - if they are only for the purpose of visualizing some models and I can use them for that to make a model, then whats the big deal? If I'm rouging out an idea I'm not going to spend forever refining that.
[16:51:07] <Caym> main modelers are Induane_ and sue ?
[16:51:10] <Induane_> some of the coders won't care much
[16:51:13] <Induane_> but yea
[16:51:13] <Jekkar> yup they are
[16:51:20] <Induane_> sueastside, myself, Hooloovoo maybe
[16:51:35] <Induane_> Rakhun|away seems to pay attention so might throw a few things his way to include him if he seems at all interested
[16:51:51] <Caym> let's get those in there then
[16:54:21] <Caym> it would also be nice if someone with a bit of authority could slap the "new" artists
[16:54:43] <Caym> what do you wanna start with Jekkar ?
[16:55:04] <Induane_> slap?
[16:55:33] <Caym> slap some sense into them :P
[16:55:38] <Caym> they seem to think this is deviantart
[16:55:50] <Jekkar> Caym, doesn't matter for me
[16:55:54] <Caym> a place where you can just post art and have people praise you in a happy place
[16:56:24] <Caym> i figured you'd like the barbaric shit moar :D
[16:56:29] <Jekkar> yeah
[16:58:15] <Induane_> there is a difference between randomy happy praise and what ya'll do
[16:58:28] <Induane_> its overly demoralizing
[16:58:37] <Induane_> I'm fine with criticism
[16:58:55] <Caym> frankly i don't give a crap about validating and respecting their feelings
[16:59:02] <Caym> it's a community project
[16:59:05] <Induane_> I just get annoyed with this is shit don't let anyone see this in public its so shitty makes us look bad like shit the lines aren't even straight
[16:59:11] <Caym> either you participate for the "greater good" or you don't
[16:59:12] <Caym> they don't
[16:59:23] <Induane_> true but you can be less insulting
[16:59:31] <Jekkar> Induane, if you wanna stick in the stone age dont drag us down with it
[16:59:38] <Induane_> shade this, straighten this up, do this, it will look batter
[16:59:44] <Jekkar> there's no progress at all
[16:59:46] <Jekkar> on anything
[16:59:48] <Induane_> where?
[16:59:52] <Jekkar> just random deving that doesnt speed things up
[17:00:04] <Caym> we just gotta take up the habit of getting together and working *together*
[17:01:00] <Caym> hell it was hard enough to do it with Jekkar, i don't expect it to be fast and easy
[17:01:18] <Caym> but yeah, that'd be nice <3
[17:01:49] <Induane_> yea helps having sueastside around for sure
[17:01:57] <Induane_> because when I get stuck I don't just sit there stuck for ages
[17:02:15] <Caym> that's the whole point of a community project eh
[17:02:48] <Caym> but if we can at least apply this process in a small group, say Jekkar, you, sue, me, trying to decide and create stuff together
[17:02:52] <Caym> well, emulation ftw
[17:03:09] <Induane_> hehe
[17:30:07] <CyaNox> Caym: Maybe because I'm suposed to be aware of anything related to PT?
[17:30:51] <Induane_> Or want to be anyways :)
[17:33:44] <Jekkar> logs
[17:50:14] <Caym> i thought there was no boss and you just provide webspace
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[18:43:19] <Induane_> ?
[18:52:32] <Caym> did sueastside write up the stuff on Kvalis ?
[18:54:09] <Induane_> not that I know of
[18:54:10] <Induane_> why?
[18:54:18] <Induane_> I wrote most of the Vaalnor history
[18:54:47] <sueastside> Caym: you can click history and youll see, indy, DD, val and jekky
[18:54:58] <sueastside> no sue
[18:55:33] <Caym> mm ok
[19:07:31] Yill has joined #peragro-art
[19:07:48] <Yill> Hey guys
[19:07:52] <Jekkar> Hey Yill
[19:08:01] <Caym> o hai
[19:08:28] <Jekkar> welcome
[19:08:37] <Yill> Heya Caym, I'm Yill. I used to be real active for PT for a while, making all sorts of models, but that has slown down drastically the past few months.
[19:09:37] <Yill> And I make a load of useless statements.
[19:09:43] <Caym> i've heard you're both nice and a good artist
[19:10:10] <Yill> Well, good to hear :)
[19:10:12] <Caym> you do concept art ?
[19:10:19] <Yill> I need a load of practice on every artsy level though.
[19:10:24] <Yill> I do, but it's rather poor.
[19:10:43] <Caym> oh just saw some
[19:10:44] <Caym> niiiice
[19:10:50] <Caym> also, concept artist = <3
[19:10:51] <Yill> Would you like to see some?
[19:10:53] <Yill> oh, ok.
[19:10:56] <Caym> yes, moar
[19:11:02] <Yill> What did you see?
[19:11:12] <Jekkar> the mammoth pic
[19:11:24] <Jekkar> on the peragro site
[19:11:29] <Yill> ah yes :)
[19:11:47] <Yill> Well caym, I got some humans, some monsters and naked women. what would you like to see?
[19:11:54] <Yill> trick question, harharhar.
[19:12:05] <Caym> naked women pls
[19:12:15] <Yill> lesbians?
[19:12:15] <Jekkar> lesbians pls
[19:12:26] <Yill> hehehe
[19:12:27] <Yill> http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r177/Proglin/Art/twoladies.png
[19:12:55] <Caym> wah awesome
[19:13:00] <Caym> you have a very original style
[19:13:07] <Caym> i love it
[19:13:28] <Yill> Thanks for the compliments.
[19:13:43] <Yill> I'll do two more, cause if I do more then two more it'll be called bragging.
[19:13:49] <Yill> http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r177/Proglin/Art/handpuppet.png
[19:14:08] <Caym> holy shit, creepy
[19:14:22] <Yill> http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r177/Proglin/Art/hoodedwomansmall.jpg
[19:15:06] <Caym> nifty how you can make something really stylish and realistic with so little strokes
[19:15:14] <Jekkar> neurotic dutchman
[19:15:21] <Caym> that explains it then
[19:15:25] <Jekkar> yup
[19:15:28] <Yill> guilty.
[19:15:44] <Jekkar> wanneer krijg ik een biertje van je
[19:17:34] <Yill> Als ik vakantie heb, heb het nu erg druk :|
[19:17:34] <Yill> Maar lijkt me wel leuk man.
[19:17:51] <Jekkar> vakantie
[19:17:53] <Jekkar> jezus
[19:17:56] <Jekkar> moet je werken?
[19:18:05] <Yill> 6 dagen per week
[19:18:08] <Jekkar> -_-
[19:18:12] <Jekkar> lekker
[19:18:17] <Jekkar> wanneer heb je vakantie
[19:18:33] <Yill> in september officieel, maar daarvoor wel een paar snipper dagen.
[19:18:39] <Jekkar> ah
[19:19:44] <Caym> hey dutchfags, tell me if i'm bothering you
[19:19:59] <Yill> Maar moeten we zeker een keer doen, kan ik gelijk even een mini cursus photoshop mepikken in ruil voor een substantial amount of beer.
[19:20:01] <Jekkar> yeah you are
[19:20:07] <Jekkar> ;)
[19:20:09] * Caym cowers in a corner
[19:20:12] <Jekkar> hey, alles open source he
[19:21:42] <Yill> I'm already liking this channel a lot better then your public one.
[19:21:46] <Yill> *main one
[19:22:05] <Jekkar> yeah
[19:22:10] <Jekkar> smart people
[19:22:28] <Caym> careful, Jekkar's cock is gonna burst out of his pants any second now
[19:22:36] <Jekkar> :x
[19:22:54] <Caym> can i be hysterical now ?
[19:23:00] <Jekkar> always
[19:23:08] <Caym> cause you know, concept artist, a good one
[19:23:10] <Caym> yay ?
[19:23:32] <Caym> oh wait
[19:23:39] <Caym> you're working on something else ?
[19:24:12] <Yill> Yeah, even back when I first joined Peragro.
[19:24:27] <Caym> :<
[19:24:33] <Caym> what's the other project ?
[19:24:37] <Yill> No wrries though, I'm community good.
[19:24:51] <Induane_> :)
[19:24:53] <Induane_> its not PS
[19:24:55] <Induane_> so he's cool
[19:24:58] <Caym> lol
[19:25:02] <Yill> A project still in it's dipers. We juuuust gota base client ready and are working on a IG editor.
[19:25:05] <Caym> as long as it's not PS...
[19:25:11] <Yill> once that one is done we'll have something to show for :)
[19:25:14] <Caym> but hey maybe it's better than this one
[19:25:21] <Caym> i already betrayed one project, i dont care
[19:25:22] <Jekkar> no it isnt
[19:25:24] <Yill> Not quite :)
[19:25:25] <Jekkar> but its interestingf
[19:25:32] <Caym> splainy pls
[19:25:48] * Induane_ waits for the Project Ura speech from Yill :)
[19:26:00] <Yill> forgive the unprofesional appearence, we just started working on this one.
[19:26:01] <Yill> http://www.trinityreign.com/contents/front/
[19:26:10] <Induane_> Its such a fun parallel!
[19:27:24] <Caym> i'm repeating myself but
[19:27:29] <Caym> why no project merge or something ?
[19:27:50] <Yill> Well Caym, it's a matter of ego to be honest.
[19:27:52] <Induane_> Some differences in goals, particularly settings wise. There is some cooperation art wise
[19:27:55] <Yill> our ideas vary slightly.
[19:28:11] <Caym> hmm well there seems to be quite a few mmo projects like that
[19:28:14] <Caym> with each like 5 people
[19:28:16] <Yill> we started of with a team with 0 skills, and I mean absolutely 0.
[19:28:18] <Caym> except PT that has a few more
[19:28:22] <Induane_> Theoretically I'm still surprised they don't help with our engine and just have a seperate settings/art
[19:28:27] <Caym> you can't expect to achieve anything with those numbers
[19:28:49] <Caym> i'd prolly like your project's settings and all better
[19:28:51] <Caym> but lol, c'mon
[19:28:58] <Caym> i don't crap out art like Jekkar
[19:29:30] <Yill> you guy are our fallback :D
[19:29:39] <Yill> If we fail, all cities are yours.
[19:30:14] <Caym> oh well, nothing's perfect i guess
[19:30:19] <Caym> so are you gonna concept for us ?
[19:30:22] <Caym> cause
[19:30:24] <Caym> VERY NEED
[19:30:50] <Yill> hehehe, we got the sae problem :)
[19:31:03] <Yill> but yeah, I can't see why not mate :)
[19:31:25] <Yill> I'll stay in touch in here
[19:31:49] <Yill> specially cause I've known jekkar and indy for a while now, and I like this channel better then your main.
[19:31:55] <Caym> tell me about it
[19:32:16] <Yill> ok, but it will be a long story.
[19:32:17] <Caym> aight so the idea i had, which went unchallenged for now cause no one gives a crap
[19:32:29] <Yill> aye?
[19:32:41] <Caym> was to sort of create a real backbone for art creation
[19:32:59] <Caym> more precisely, define art styles for different civilizations
[19:33:12] <Caym> with categories, like clothing, architecture, furniture, whatnot
[19:33:31] <Caym> just really throw together random crap and see what works and/or looks pretty
[19:34:04] <Caym> really just try and provide some coherence to the art
[19:35:15] <Yill> continue :D
[19:35:38] <Caym> so what we did pretty much today
[19:35:46] <Caym> was take the description of one civilization
[19:35:57] <Caym> try to find different influence that could work together
[19:36:11] <Caym> and just come up with patterns, architecture shapes, textures, colors, etc
[19:36:21] <Yill> aye
[19:36:55] <Caym> like, i'm making a building for Kvalis trying to tie together gothic arches, mayan pyramids and middle eastern messy shit
[19:37:14] <Caym> if it sounds like horrible crap, it's normal
[19:37:19] <Caym> cause it is, but i have hope
[19:37:45] <Yill> So you want to alter the system that worked well on the previous few cities?
[19:38:11] <Caym> people making random crap according to whatever they feel like ?
[19:38:11] <Jekkar> what system, Vaalnor took years to finish
[19:38:44] <Caym> well thing is either people are really not paying attention or there's no system at all
[19:38:47] <Caym> like, for the weapons
[19:38:51] Induane_ has joined #peragro-art
[19:39:03] <Caym> you got people making basic stuff with plain textures
[19:39:17] <Caym> i come up with excessively fancy designs and over-detailed textures
[19:39:24] <Caym> and somehow no one minds
[19:41:03] <Yill> Alright, so you want to create a system that applies to everyone.
[19:41:57] <Caym> well not a system per se, cause i suck at that, just having a set of references for art
[19:42:03] <Caym> like "this civ looks like that"
[19:42:14] <Yill> Alright, where does concept fit in?
[19:42:22] <Caym> pretty much everywhere i guess
[19:42:32] <Caym> afaik that's what comes first in any project
[19:43:44] <Caym> plus even for the future, i guess it can come in handy
[19:44:19] <Caym> but dunno, i'm just throwing random ideas here
[19:44:48] <Induane_> concept art can also be re-used ingame decoratively
[19:44:53] <Yill> the only way to turn random ideas into good ones everyone can live with is throwing em arround so yeah.
[19:44:58] <Induane_> a pencil sketch can be overlaid for an etching
[19:45:01] <Yill> yeah
[19:45:02] <Induane_> or paintings
[19:45:10] <Yill> or a card game.
[19:45:12] <Caym> definitely
[19:45:12] <Yill> just an idea.
[19:45:23] <Caym> like Jekkar's been using pattern doodles for textures
[19:45:27] <Caym> it's never a waste of time
[19:45:46] <Yill> Alrighty
[19:46:12] <Caym> so yeah, what do you think about all this crap x)
[19:46:15] <Yill> I'd like to hear more, specifically about the pipeline (who does what first and who does what next).
[19:46:26] <Yill> but!
[19:46:28] <Caym> oh stop it, you're turning me on
[19:46:41] <Induane_> concept art --> 3d model ---> uv unwrapping ---> texture
[19:46:49] <Caym> makes sense
[19:47:02] <Induane_> so essentially the artist draws it, kicks it to a modeler, modeler makes it and uvmaps it and kicks that back to the artist
[19:47:05] <Yill> not settings first?
[19:47:16] <Yill> heck! I AM the pipeline!
[19:47:21] <Caym> well settings seems to be a bit everyone
[19:47:22] <Induane_> I'm assuming that concept stuff considered settings at the time
[19:47:28] <Yill> up tto texture, at least -_-
[19:47:29] <Caym> i guess that'd be writers or something
[19:47:38] <Caym> or a sort of art head, or both
[19:48:17] <Yill> I dig.
[19:48:20] <Yill> Well alright :)
[19:48:21] <Caym> so i guess that so far, we'll be making whatever we want
[19:48:27] <Caym> and then just show it around to whoever cares
[19:48:39] <Caym> if someone bitches, it goes away, if they're happy, it stays, something like that
[19:48:40] <Yill> and now we make what concept wants
[19:48:48] <Yill> and then still show it around to whoever cares.
[19:49:08] <Induane_> You all decided on an art licence yet yill?
[19:49:20] <Yill> cc
[19:49:26] <Induane_> same as us?
[19:49:31] <Induane_> non commercial or no?
[19:49:36] <Yill> no modify, yes distribute.
[19:49:48] <Yill> and non commercial.
[19:50:01] <Induane_> I think we allowed deravitive works with attribution
[19:50:01] <Caym> Induane_, just one last thing about the pipeline thing
[19:50:22] <Induane_> so someone could take a sword, put a different texture on it, use it, then has to credit us still is all
[19:50:44] <Induane_> Caym go ahead?
[19:51:08] <Caym> it's based on the fact that everyone agrees to abide by it
[19:51:23] <Yill> alright guys, the lady is getting pissed off.
[19:51:28] <Caym> cause imo even if we manage to come up with something good as concept
[19:51:29] <Yill> see you all later today.
[19:51:36] <Caym> it's just gonna rot in some folder
[19:51:38] <Yill> o/'
[19:51:40] <Caym> cya man
[19:51:41] Yill has parted:
[19:52:03] <Caym> i mean even the oracle dude goes "i dont care i do whatever i want"
[19:54:33] <Induane_> I think that you can't always put everyone in the same box. It will likely work for most people, some prefer to work with different processes. So long as he gets around to familiarizing with the settings stuff and pays attention to the style stuff you all decide when its ready and demonstrable, what is the issue with him being more than one step in the process?
[19:55:02] <Induane_> for instance he sketches something and models it and textures it. Whats wrong with that so long as he utilizes the same aspects of design that are available?
[19:55:12] <Caym> thing is he prolly won't
[19:55:45] <Induane_> we won't know that at all until we have that base ready
[19:55:52] <Caym> but it doesn't matter, i'm just concerned about actually making something worthwhile, it's more than enough
[19:55:56] <Induane_> until then he's making fairly generic stuff and it looks nice to me
[19:56:15] <Induane_> so I don't see something wrong with whats going on at the moment.
[19:57:54] <Caym> just the attitude i guess
[19:58:36] <Caym> i'm proposing a pertinent project asking for all artists to collaborate, and i get a "lol u blocked"
[19:58:44] <Caym> just sounds incredibly immature to me
[20:00:19] <Induane_> it didn't quite go like that. The way you presented it to him was I think what he objected to most.
[20:00:29] <Induane_> people have a tendency to get comfortable with their own process of working
[20:00:53] <Induane_> when you want to change that insulting them isn't necessarily going to do anything but piss them off
[20:01:48] <Jekkar> he's not paying attention
[20:01:54] <Jekkar> he's here to show off his work
[20:01:56] <Jekkar> every 5 minute
[20:02:06] <Jekkar> it's like he's keeping to a schedule
[20:02:16] <Induane_> I'm happy with productivity
[20:02:18] <Induane_> especially right now
[20:02:21] <Jekkar> I invited him into the channel he doesnt even respond
[20:02:24] <Jekkar> he's a dweep
[20:02:27] <Induane_> when we're trying to do a lot of work in a short amount of time
[20:02:31] <Jekkar> shutup
[20:02:32] <Jekkar> jesus
[20:03:14] <Jekkar> you dont even get it
[20:03:26] <Jekkar> you rattle and rattle and dont even pay attention to what we're saying
[20:04:10] <Caym> do you only want to fill the game with incoherent rushed crap or take time to make a somewhat mature and dedicated project ?
[20:04:22] <Caym> you PT seem to lack common sense sometimes :P
[20:04:44] <Induane_> I read everything you both said
[20:04:48] <Induane_> and I didn't even disagree with it all
[20:05:04] <Induane_> just saying that the other perspective isn't completely moronic either.
[20:05:16] <Induane_> And also suggested that insulting people wasn't the best way to persuade someone
[20:05:24] <Induane_> if thats not common sense I don't know what to say
[20:07:02] <Induane_> Caym the issue really is that productivity is really incredibly important because we have the work of an army to do and only a handful to do it.
[20:07:29] <Caym> i do get it, i however always got the feeling that speed has taken over quality
[20:07:57] <Induane_> if we want to have a game with a decent amount of content in a reasonable timeframe then there has to be some balance between quality/quantity. You can't rush everything and just do shitty work but you can't spend forever on smaller things either and expect to get solid progress.
[20:08:02] <Caym> there's a lot of "oh well we'll fix it later" going on, which in the end amount in loss of time
[20:08:38] <Induane_> putting off refinement isn't always a loss of time
[20:08:40] <Caym> yeah but that's the thing, i'm not sure the current way of doing things is actually speedier all things considered
[20:09:02] <Induane_> surely debatable but you can't deny that theoracle has done some good work very quickly.
[20:09:12] <Caym> not good, but quickly
[20:09:15] <Induane_> particularly with modeling, rigging, and animating characters.
[20:09:32] <Caym> ah sorry, can only talk about texturing, i'm not an expert for the rest x)
[20:09:34] <Induane_> I think his last weapons looked pretty good.
[20:09:43] <Induane_> but his real skill is the animations
[20:09:52] <Caym> let him do animations then
[20:09:55] <Induane_> the deer was cool, leaping, grazing, running, etc :D
[20:09:57] <Caym> it's like the maces crap
[20:10:01] <Induane_> he is doing that
[20:10:04] <Induane_> he's done alot of that
[20:10:09] <Caym> we got drowned in shitty models that are only good to throw away
[20:10:16] <Caym> how does that make anyone gain time ?
[20:10:47] <Induane_> I deleted like 20 shields last night.
[20:10:54] <Induane_> I'm doing alot of cleanup work now.
[20:11:02] <Caym> which is good
[20:11:17] <Caym> but to avoid that, i think some tweaks in procedure could help everyone work faster and better
[20:11:39] <Induane_> I left a few cheap maces because they were somewhat useable. I can mod a base texture for them which takes no time hardly. Then we can replace them later as nicer things are completed.
[20:11:55] <Induane_> you're right, having a good process will eliminate working on stuff that is useless
[20:12:44] <Caym> like, we tried something with Jekkar yesterday
[20:12:51] <Caym> instead of each making our own textures
[20:13:05] <Caym> he does a first version with some patterns i gave him
[20:13:12] <Caym> all i have to do is paint over it
[20:13:27] <Caym> it's both speedy and better quality than if we had each done our thing separately
[20:14:30] <Caym> hence why i wanted to gather the artists
[20:14:36] <Caym> so we can lay a foundation for 3d people
[20:14:55] <Caym> who can then just model stuff that's precise enough on paper to do it quickly
[20:14:56] <Caym> etc..
[20:15:48] <Induane_> what I think won't work is you making one concept and going ok make this. its better to have lots of concepts and let people pick what to model. Part of motivation is interest.
[20:15:59] <Caym> yeah that was the idea
[20:16:10] <Caym> the whole "civ concept" thing was intended to be very general
[20:16:24] <Caym> but as an artist it's waaay easier to build upon something you have a visual idea of
[20:16:42] <Caym> and anyway, any core designs would be approved by everyone in the first place
[20:16:49] <Induane_> Very true. Thats why I do even crappy sketches sometimes of stuff before I model. I cna't draw well but getting it on paper helps with the modeling process.
[20:17:29] <Induane_> I think that getting "approval" all over is going to be something less important, the people who care about art should weigh in but you and jekkar particularly should be pretty free to be artistic
[20:18:04] <Caym> well Jekkar mostly i guess, i dont know shit about settings, i just follow the wiki and try to wrestle approval from him x)
[20:18:09] <Induane_> if something is a radical departure and requires us to redeisgn everything thats one thing, but new stuff... well - just make it and we'll make it. I get concerned with getting bogged down in processes.
[20:18:18] <Induane_> Jekkar is a good handle on settings so thats fine
[20:18:31] <Induane_> as long as that works for you two
[20:18:41] <Induane_> but sueastside is only here 2 months and we have that goal as a release
[20:18:58] <Induane_> so I'm going to be moving forward regardless at soem points.
[20:19:37] <Induane_> we'll have to layout the island terrain soon
[20:20:08] <Caym> well i guess terrain isn't that important, concept wise
[20:20:13] <Caym> it can be improvised
[20:21:37] <Induane_> true but then we'll be laying out the two towns
[20:21:45] <Induane_> and they will be laid out one way or another
[20:21:53] <Induane_> I'll obviously be looking for help with that
[20:21:56] <Caym> *checks wiki*
[20:22:07] <Induane_> two towns on the island of Tal'Anee
[20:22:16] <Induane_> port towns I think both of them
[20:22:54] <Caym> so we should make concept for that first
[20:22:56] <Caym> right ?
[20:23:04] <Induane_> we have some buildings modeled already
[20:23:11] <Induane_> look in the tal'anee folder in svn
[20:23:19] <Caym> any screenshots of those ?
[20:23:23] <Induane_> some preliminary texturing but it all needs some work
[20:23:24] <Caym> i'm unable to make render in blender
[20:23:25] <Induane_> yea one sec
[20:24:01] <Induane_> http://www.vaalnor.org/Downloads/Media/Dumps/thatchhouse11.jpg
[20:24:09] <Induane_> I need to fix that thatch roof with some alpha
[20:25:22] <Induane_> thats also not a render
[20:25:24] <Caym> yeah this is pretty generic
[20:25:24] <Induane_> just ingame
[20:25:27] <Caym> ok then
[20:25:32] <Caym> Tal'Anee time
[20:25:45] <Caym> trying to instill some personality in those towns
[20:25:53] <Caym> any styles in mind ?
[20:26:57] <Induane_> Tal'Anee is the island not the town afaik
[20:27:08] <Induane_> I'd have to double check - Jekkar wrote all the settings for it I think
[20:27:24] <Jekkar> I did Shivergrot
[20:27:27] <Jekkar> not Tal'anee
[20:27:31] <Jekkar> DD did Tal'anee
[20:27:52] <Caym> :<
[20:28:04] <Jekkar> induane can you use this for tal'anee: http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/6141/grassnt4.jpg
[20:30:23] <Induane_> put it in svn
[20:30:34] <Jekkar> where
[20:30:58] <Jekkar> nvm
[20:33:04] <Jekkar> where
[20:33:16] <Induane_> in tal-anee
[20:33:19] <Induane_> textures folder
[20:34:16] <Jekkar> okay not helping so forget about it
[20:35:02] <Caym> mayan pyramid + gothic cathedral = wat
[20:35:03] <Caym> http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/8941/lolsn7.jpg
[20:36:05] <Induane_> ?
[20:36:19] <Induane_> the tal_anee folder in svn has a textures folder
[20:36:21] <Induane_> commit it there
[20:36:25] <Jekkar> no
[20:36:37] <Induane_> 3d_art/buildings/tal_anee/textures
[20:36:40] <Induane_> you said it was for there
[20:41:38] <Induane_> <3
[20:46:03] <sueastside> Caym: i believe if you explained it like you did halve an hour ago, oracle would have joined.
[20:46:50] <Jekkar> there's nothing to explain, if he wants to contribute he should work together
[20:48:53] <sueastside> his objection was with joining "another" chennel, some people just don't like being in 10+ channels
[20:49:02] <sueastside> *channel
[20:50:33] <Jekkar> 10+ channels?
[20:50:36] <Jekkar> then he should leave the other 9